Sorry to use the language in the title, but Marc Jackson is nothing, he's a nobody. He had ONE good year, and it happened to be for the Warriors. Who's going to contend for stats with him there? Jamison's just looking for points, so Jackson's got a lot of other box score to fill for himself. On any other team he would be merely average. Also, has anyone checked his stats against marquee centers? 9 pts/game average vs Lakers, 12 vs Spurs, 4 vs Sixers(I assume with Dikembe), and another whopping 9 vs the Sonics and Patrick Ewing. Has anyone seen that time he was given a facial by Shaq? The man's stats just don't add up. He's not some savior at center, well sure he'd help, but not much. So for all of you who are falling head over heels for the "other" Marc(not Mark) Jackson, look at the stats before being so easily persuaded by the future dud. Just because he happens to be one of the more appealing free agents of the summer, doesn't mean he's the answer, or anything close to it. ------------------ Mmm Queso.
Agreed. And Davis is too short for C. ------------------ "banging Shaq is a whole different expirience"-Pete Babcock Behold the power of quotation
Geez, give the guy a 2nd year before you say he is sh*t! I mean my god, people are just throwing away his first year of production. How do you know he won't have another good year of solid production! And Antonio Davis is to short to play C!? You guys are real picky considering we don't have many options as it is at the center spot. And I did look at the stats, and the stats tell me that Cato produced LESS then Marc Jackson, and that is who we will be stuck with if we can't keep Dream. Besides, since you're tearing people apart for wanting Marc Jackson what is YOUR answer for us at the center position? It's easy to tear apart someone's idea, how about your solution to our center woes? ------------------ "Win if you can, lose if you must but always cheat!" - Jesse Ventura
ElGrande, If it was yesterday, I would be agreeing to your argument, but while the bbs was down, I decided to do some free agent research. I analyzed the game by game stats for Nazr Mohammad, Marc Jackson, Christian Laetner, Jerome Williams, and Kelvin Cato. My conclustion with Marc is that he is not a stud as some people tend to believe, but would be a servicable center. He is big, so he gets rebounds. He is not a great rebounder, but a good rebounder given the chance. He averaged over 10 a game when he started (in these games he would get good minutes and did not accumulate many fouls). But what really got me was his scoring ability. In addition to the stats, I read many espn recaps. This guy scored a lot. I would liken his game last year to what everyone hopes Jason Collier could be one day. When analyzing, I took blowouts (wins and losses) and discarded the stats. I also disregarded games where players had very few minutes (unless there was a pattern reason, like Cato's fouling). In response to your arguments: He did have to contend for stats. Jackson started the year on the bench and worked his way into starting. He played well on bad team, so what? That doesn't mean he would be a bad player on a good team. The star centers did kick his ass, but that is what "star" centers do. Jackson is not a "star", but he is good. And he did not have one good year. He had half. He was injured for a one fourth and didn't play real minutes one fourth. After seeing this, I decided "what the hell, just use Cato." But when I got to Cato's stats, I almost cried. He was absolutely horrible. For a guy so athletically built, for anyone, he was just horrible. Jackson might have had a half of a good year, but Cato only had one good preseason. So, I agree, Jackson is NOT the savior. We should NOT break the bank to sign him. He is NOT better than Dream. However, he IS good, IS servicable, and would be a GOOD ROLE PLAYER. This guy is NOT A DUD. KELVIN CATO IS A DUD. If we can get Jackson, I'd be up for it.
I am not saying Jackson will be a complete failure, he is just not what we need. To be honest, the Rockets only real goal for next season will be to make the playoffs. Sure Jackson will help with that, but he won't for the long term goal of a championship. He is probably requesting around 6-8 mil a year, and he is not worth that. I say we give Hakeem the max for this year, let him retire, and go after a more legit center after the season. That is a much better plan for the long run. Also, correct me if I'm wrong anybody, but couldn't the Rockets have had Nazr Mohammed in the Francis deal? ------------------ Mmm Queso. [This message has been edited by ElGrandeQueso (edited July 02, 2001).]
I think we will have to sign a young free agent center either this summer or next. I would rather sign Dream this year, and when he and Walt come off the cap, sign a new one next year. However, who is available next year in the center position that we would want? I like Keon Clark from Toronto, but being a fourth year guy, I think he would be a restricted free agent. Are there any good unrestricted free agent centers available next summer? ------------------
Marc Jackson is the best option at center when compared to other options this year. I don't think anyone is suggesting that he is the Rockets' savior. But he is a step up from the current Rockets' centers (Cato and Collier). I don't think he will be requesting (and nobody will pay) $8-10 million after one solid year. Anyone have any solid information? If he asks for more than $5-7 million per year then pass on him. ------------------
Also, correct me if I'm wrong anybody, but couldn't the Rockets have had Nazr Mohammed in the Francis deal? How? The Francis deal was between Houston, Vancouver, and Orlando. Mohammed was never the property of either the Grizzlies or the Magic. ------------------ EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE!!! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
After seeing how maligned Marc Jackson is by some of the bbs folks on this board, I decided to do a little background checking. The basic theme on this bbs by the anti Jackson folks is that the guy is soft, cant defend and just got lucky on a bad team. I posted something similar to what Im about to post in that huge Jackson thread yesterday, but the thread has apparently disappeared. In any case, instead of simply believing Swopa's analysis on Jackson, I decided to ask folks whose opinions I value that have actually watched the guy since his days in high school in Philly and have watched his game mature. The word I received is that Jackson is a very dedicated hard worker who is very fundamentally sound in his game. He does not have the best body or best natural talents, but he plays a very intelligent game on both ends of the floor. He uses his body really well in rebounding situations and on defense. Jackson isnt a good shot blocker, but he is a very solid position defender who knows how to play fundamentally sound defense. Jackson is not soft as some on this BBS have insinuated. The fact that the guy is very good facing the basket and has a nice shot out to 18 ft does not make him a soft player. The fact that he was applauded and recruited by John Cheaney into Temple and has improved his game so much since his HS days should show the guy is not soft and lazy. Marc Jackson is a humble player that is very good for team chemistry and really is committed to improving and excelling. The impression I received from speaking with folks that have lived in the Philly area and seen Jackson, Mobley, Bryant, etc from their early stages is a whole lot different than what I get off this board. Jackson's game and style of play really fit this team's needs imo. A big body that rebounds and shoots well from the perimeter is exactly what this team needs. Lets take a look at other options.... There are absolutely no good unrestricted FA centers avail next summer. All the targets everyone wants, LaFrentz, Clark, Kandi etc are all restricted. This basically means that the center position could not be addressed till 2003 at the earliest assuming someone slips through the cracks. The rap on Nazr Mohammed is that he does not play hard in practice (which is apparently why Larry Brown never gave him PT) and that his attitude is not very good. Natural talent is great, but the rest of the package isnt. Sound like someone we know? ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
Agreed. Marc is shxx. I watched quite a number of his games. He reminds me of Rick Fox at his worst. Marc is a pretty dirty player, using some underhand tactics to get the opponent angry, and pretends he is innocent. If he has Karla numbers, I don't mind having him in Houston. But the truth is he is going to make other people hate his team. ------------------
MManal, thanks for your detailed post. Although I saw nearly every game Jackson played this year, it's true that I had never seen him play before (at Temple or anywhere else). It's also true that Jackson claims he was hampered all year by a groin injury he suffered in training camp (which eventually knocked him out for the final months of the season). With those caveats in mind, all I can say is what I saw, and it's up to all of you to interpret how any of these things may be different next year: * He may have the physique and the schooling to play solid positional defense, but he rarely did so last year. Perhaps the groin injury limited his lateral movement, or maybe he was just paranoid about not risking foul trouble. Either way, as I've posted before, his primary defensive technique was something I came to call "the pylon" -- as soon as his man got the ball, Jackson would stand bolt upright with his arms straight up in the air, and not move until about a second after his man had released his shot or pass. Adonal Foyle and especially Erick Dampier were both much better positional defenders. The Warriors were in the middle of the league in defensive FG% before Jackson became the starter (due to both Foyle and Dampier being injured), then quickly plummeted to last in the NBA afterward. It was not a coincidence, trust me. * When I refer to Jackson as relatively unathletic, I mean it in the sense that he didn't have the gifts that let some smaller C's "play bigger than their size," or provide matchup problems at that position. He had almost no vertical leap, was slow running the court -- which he attributed to his groin injury, but both Foyle (coming off a stress fracture in his leg) and Dampier (after his 3rd knee surgery in 1 1/2 years) were much faster -- and doesn't have especially long arms. The result was not just a lack of shotblocking but a disadvantage in fast breaks and the relative ease with which taller opponents were able to shut him down. * Whatever he may have been at Temple, he is not particularly humble now. Jackson quickly gained a reputation last year as a loud, non-stop trash talker, and made statements that he expected to be a starter and get substantial low-post opportunities wherever he played next year. None of this is meant to take away from the many virtues that have been noted about Jackson. He does have some maturity & intelligence in his play, fairly good low-post moves, and a great touch from outside -- when he gets hot, look out, because he can stay hot an entire game. I have no beef on either side of this subject -- I'd like to see Jackson re-sign with the Warriors, but if some team offers him a long-term deal for more than GS can offer (say, starting at $5-6 million for seven years), I fully expect him to take it. Just trying to give an informed report of what I've seen, that's all. ------------------
"the pylon" LOL ------------------ ZeColmeia on stealing: "I did not steal anything. Ive used some of clutchcity player profiles when I first created the draft profile page."
I think from a Rockets perspective, you can get to the bottomline very quickly. Some team in the NBA will take the risk of signing Marc Jackson to a long-term (4-6 year) deal at around $6M/year. (The Warriors can not exceed $4.5M). Once Jackson gets to that level, Dreams' shorter contract becomes much more attractive to the Rockets. I just don't see the Rockets entering a bidding war for Jackson even if the brain trusts are as optimistic as MManal. The Rockets may just have to live with the option of Dream, Cato & Collier at the 5 for one or even two more seasons. ------------------ GATER
Marc Jackson is an overachiever who works hard and I applaud that.He is developing very good fundamentals,but his upside is limited by his athletic ability and lack of instincts on the defensive end.He'll be a good fit with the right team.......not this one though.We need defense out of that spot for one. We called the ONLY man for the job at 12:01 a.m. ------------------ Everybody has a little bit of Watergate in em - Billy Graham
