I've heard people say that the Rockets' inability to score the last couple of years is a product of a 'low possession' style of play. The question I have is why would you want to limit possessions? If I have an advantage offensively, it seems to me that I would want to increase the amount of possessions in the game, to further capitalize on that advantage. On the other hand, if I had a talent deficiency, limiting possessions could work in my favor by keeping the ball out of the other team's hands, so to speak. What is the point of trying to limit possessions when you have two top 2 players at two positions on your team?
JVG's style of game is all about possessions. His offense is soley based on the purpose of using as much clock as possible. This slow-down pace is debatable. We never get out on the break, we NEVER get easy shots, and even if we are able to score early-JVG would rather pull it back out to use more clock. I'm willing to give JVG time to balance out the offense with defense. Be he has NEVER shown (in his 5-6yrs of coaching) that he can do so. He has had big scorers on his teams (Houston, Spree, Ewing, Francis, Mobley, Yao, now TMac) but has yet to score over 90ppg in his career. As long as we win I will be happy, but I have said it before and I'll say it again- I don't think this team will be able to reach its full potential under JVG. We have the 2-time scoring champ and Yao Ming, and he is still finding ways for us to struggle on the offensive end.
Freak, I totally agree, the teams that are winning right now are getting out in transition. I really despise JVG, just don't think he is all that great of a coach. DD
weather its a good idea or not, our GAME is defense. half court defense is how we win. the way to beat us is to open up the game and beat us in transition. that is why we run a slow offense, we do not want to get into a running game which will defeat our defense.
Really as long as we execute, this becomes irrelevant. I don't think it is fair to say that JVG would not want easy points, quick in the offense. Every coach wants that. But it's just not that easy. Rudy had a high-flying, semi-fastbreak team in his later years, but Yao changes a lot of that now. There's no way you can expect him to be effective when he has to try to keep up with the pace of the game. It is fast as it stands right now for him. You also have to look at what causes the number of possessions to rise, mainly fast break points. I'd guess none of our big men are capable of throwing that outlet on a consistent basis. Add that to our guards, who are more experienced, smart, and less athletic -- you won't find very many fast breaking opportunities. I think JVG's philosophy is, we can get a JJ post up turn around shot at any point of the shot clock. If we execute like we're supposed to, no team, with the exception of the elites, should be able to hang with us. Watching the few games I've been able to, our role players have been getting great looks off of McGrady. We just need to put them down, but I think we're in great shape right now. Imagine last year if Francis, Mobley went down for a game. Do you think we would almost knock off Minnesota or a Kobe-led Lakers? I'm happy with our team work, and so is JVG. He's gone on record as saying he is extremely pleased at the trust both Yao and T-Mac show in their teammates, something Hakeem had to finally accept before he led us to the championship. And on the McGrady note, I think it would be utterly stupid to say JVG has limited his offense at all. He's impressed me so much -- for all those who said he was all about stats, selfish .. who were you watching? This guy is amazing, and he doesn't force anything. He's always willing to make the extra pass, he's such a great playmaker. We are truely lucky to have a player like him, I didn't realize how good he was until I see it work first-hand for my team.
TheFreak, I agree as well. JVG has yet to show, and it could be because he didn't have the players... I don't know, but he's yet to show that he can play the game both ways, like his mentor, Pat Riley. Riley knew how to produce a high octane offense, no question about it. Van Gundy hasn't shown that ability at all, yet. Has it been the players? We should see this season. I know there have been significant rules changes since the Showtime Lakers days, but we have the League's top scorer for the last 2 seasons on the team. We have the best center in the West. We have some decent role players. I think we should start putting some serious points on the scoreboard by the All Star break, barring the "I" (as in ouch) word. If we don't, I'm not going to be happy. I have a feeling that at least one player on the team won't be as well.
The reason for the slow offense is simple. Slow pace means players get tired more slowly means star players can play for more minutes. Use Yao for example. Suppose his stamina allows him to roughly go up and down the court(1 possesion for each team) 40 times a game. Would it be more advantageous for the Rockets to have a game with only 60 plays on both sides, or 70? Obviously, the less possesions each team has, the bigger role Yao and his mismatch at center plays a part.
Freak, I disagree with the premise. If you have big matchup advantages at 2 positions (as we do) that in principle allow you to score reliably when it's 5-on-5 with everybody in position -- and if you have problems getting your big man back on defense in a fast-moving game (as we do) -- it makes sense to limit the speed of the game so you can play 5-on-5 both ways. If we put a PG on the floor who's not on Geritol, and if Yao can throw the outlet and stay back, then yes, go for it. But that requires Yao to become a more reliable rebounder.
The big problem I have with JVG's system or lack of one is the fact, our players look tentative. They don't shoot when they are open, and are always looking to make the extra pass. They are pros, if they are open including Yao at 18 feet, shoot the f*cking ball. Stop trying to make the extra pass when no one is cutting. If you want Yao to be able to get into the low block, let him him a couple of 20 footers so they have to cover him out there. It's easy to cover someone if they stay in the same spot all the time.
Biggest problem with Low Possession Games is that it allows other teams to 'hang around' too long Rocket River
Isn't NBA basketball supposed to be a form of Entertainment? JVG's style of play is not entertaining. I went to the Rockets game vs the Lakers and it is the most boring brand of basketball that you will ever see. The only reason why it seems halfway entertaining on TV is because of Bill Worrell and Van C. Bottom line - Get some better PG's and quicken up the pace a bit.
You're describing exactly what happened to Francis. Some of ya'll think things will change with more time. This is how JVG wants to play basketball. He calls it a mtion offense and team passes, yet the passes aren't going anywhere, there just there to use more time off the clock. I don't like JVG and I don't think I ever will. His history with the Knicks and the 1 season w/ Rockets are almost identical. Look at the stats, its unbelievable.
Thing is - a low possession game means you can exert your defensive advantage (if you have one) - our defense is oriented around an impossibly tall man in the middle (who isn't even a shot blocker) and everyone else crowding their man and making them take bad shots. We're slow of foot but high intensity - you get the boards and don't give second chances. That's what Gundyball is all about - giving them as few opportunites to score as possible and putting the pressure on their offense to deliver. And it'll work - defensive teams make the playoffs (hence Gundy makes it year after year). But does the philosophy get results? The problem is, if you keep possessions low, the whole idea of a big margin of victory becomes relative - a Gundyball team up by 10-15 might think they are ahead by a long way because the game is "relatively shorter" (fewer possessions) - but when something stupid happens here or there - or an opponent gets hot and makes some flukey shots, that difference evaporates and you find yourself on the wrong end of (another) upset. I don't think the slow it down and bash it out approach ever made a team "dominant" - and I have no idea why we don't play more up-tempo in offense.... If Yao gets more tired then take him off for a bit - better to play him for 28 minutes a night and let Deke run around and block some shots or something than to put ourselves in games where we get upset by the bad teams... What a rant - I just want to blow some crappy teams out...
Not really. Rockets leads will always appear to be smaller, in comparison with other teams, than it really is. Because the game is shortened. Kind of like college basketball games, where 15 point leads looks pretty much unsurmountable. Of course, last night was more of an abberation, where we just plain choked down the stretch.
It's not. Look at the ratings. This city will never embrace that pus%y game, or the sourpuss who can't handle flow. Even "The Big Fundamental" in SA can't draw a national audience. The low possession game is a cheat. It's boring. We don't get to see the players play. Their exceptional ability is flushed down the toilet, in favor of the coaches micromanagement. Great. Yeah, that's what the fans pay money to see. We line up to watch Big Chief Grumpy push a magic marker on a tiny whiteboard, and see if he can stare down a real player, and force him away from his God-given talent. Who cares if it's an ugly heave, as long as it comes at the last clock tick? Really, really good defenses do something when they take the ball away. They get the rebound and go at you. They steal, they break. They block, they hammer it back. They disrupt, they frustrate. They run it down your throat. There's an attack. Real Champions don't play on their heels. There's no Grumpyball in the Lakers or the Bulls titles.
