What starting lineups should this team go with? Obviously our starting lineup isn't working so well anymore. Our biggest problems are at the forward positions, the other positions are pretty much set in who starts. Francis Mobley Posey Griffin Yao Posey and Griffin are the biggest problems. Their D is now below average and horrible respectively. We can use Griffin's rebounding and weakside help (although he is still a liability right now on the team), but Posey has become kinda useless. Unless he starts bringing it again, I'm afraid he should not be starting, perhaps only getting garbage minutes. Francis Mobley TMo Griffin Yao This lineup could work better. TMo has a good all around game, his D, rebounding, and now even his shooting (although not really from 3 point range) are all pretty good. A frontcourt lineup of TMo, Griffin, and Yao could be pretty scary on the defensive end. And since we don't really have a consistent 3 point shooter (only a streaky one in Rice), perhaps TMo could be the one who knocks down jumpers pretty consistently from passes out of double teams. He seems like the perfect role player and is probly happy to catch and shoot as well as create for himself. With TMo and Griffin starting, Rice and MoT should be the main backups with Nachbar picking up the garbage minutes. MoT is nice offense off the bench and Rice is streaky but could do some good. The only problem with this is a trade of defense for offense when we go to the second team, but then again they would be going up against opponent's less potent second team offenses. Francis Mobley Rice MoT Yao This starting lineup may work... but instead of more of a balance between offense and defense, this lineup obviously pushes for offense, and oppoenent's D may have a hard time double teaming Yao if the others are hitting their jumpshots. Backup at the forward positions then would be TMo and Griffin. TMo, Griffin, and Cato would still be a pretty scary frontcourt defensively. A starting lineup with Rice and Griffin together would be a disaster at this stage of the season for the obvious reasons. And sure other lineups are out there including starting Hawkins at the 3, but I'd rather have him back up Mobley.. which of course doesn't seem to happen very often. Thoughts?
As pointed out in other threads, Mo is a foul waiting to happen, among other things. Griffin will see major minutes regardless, he simply has to start playing better. Rice for Posey is worth a try. At this stage in his career, Rice isn't close to being consistent, but he's enough of a threat to keep defenses honest. As for TMo, I actually would like to see him play a little PF, especially when the Rocks are faced off with some of these skilled PFs. I'm begining to think that he'd be better as a quick PF vs. a big SF. Put more weight on him and throw him in a weight room, and TMo could be a solid PF, IMHO.
1. You can't relegate Posey from starting to totally out of rotation. That would be bad for morale. 2. In your 2nd lineup, who would be your scorer for the 2nd unit? TMo, Griffin, and Cato?
You may be right about TMo. Perhaps if he does put on some weight we would lose our need of either Griffin or MoT and be able to use them in trades. Right now I think TMo is a better player than Griffin and possibly better than MoT, and I think he has the potential to become the best (although Griffin seems to have more potential than him, he just doesn't have the attitude or intensity). Regardless, I hope we don't resign Posey.. he hasn't been what we expected. Give him a couple more chances, then move him to a backup role to give him a sign, then bench him if he still sucks it up on BOTH ends of the court.
Considering they would be going up against the 2nd unit of opponent's teams, TMo should be able to work effectively and Cato, yes Cato, should provide should offense through alley-oops and putbacks. Anyways, Cat or Francis always seems to be on the floor in RT's rotations. But I agree offense would be a problem for the 2nd unit since Griffin has not developed as we all hoped (maybe putting Griffin as a backup could get him to dominate the ball more and be more aggressive being the 1st or 2nd option?, doubt it but it might be worth a try). Basically with limited offensive options, we'd be gambling with the Rox being able to play good D. Myself... I like the first lineup better. And if Posey keeps sucking then yes bench him, let's see RT show some toughness.
As long as the lineup doesn't include Griffin and Taylor. There isn't a single starting power forward in the NBA I wouldn't trade either of these guys for...
I'm ready to give the new guys (Boki, Maddox) a chance. We've been playing the same players all year long and they haven't taken the team anywhere. Whatever silly reason that Doc Rocket mentioned why Rudy is not playing Nachbar, he needs to get over it and just play the kid already. Starting lineup: Yao Taylor Nachbar Cat Francis Taylor and Boki are much better shooters than Griffin and Posey. Maybe then teams will start respecting the forward spots more instead of leaving them to guard Yao, Cat and Francis. Presently, we're basically playing 3 against 5 on offense. 2nd Unit: Cato Griffin Posey Francis Maddox A good spark plug unit to bring some energy and defense on the floor. Cato and Griffin to block the shots and get rebounds. Francis, Maddox, and Posey should be awesome running the fast break. Maddox can start the break better than anyone and Posey and Francis can finish. Then you start working the starting lineup in again.
I don't like the idea of Nachbar starting yet... I wouldn't mind him getting some more minutes, but behind TMo at least. Plus having a starting lineup of Taylor/Nachbar may not be better than Taylor/Rice, perhaps even worse (both offensively and defensively), at least for the remainder of the season. Nachbar just doesn't have enough experience, we shouldn't drop him in the fire just yet, but we should get him more playing time. And I still think Hawkins needs to be in the lineup, his shooting isn't so great, but better than Posey's and his D is better as well. If Posey gets ANY time at all, Hawkins should get a significant amount more. I'd like to see what Maddox can do too... but RT would never ever do that. How bout something like this? Starting: Francis Cat TMo Griffin Yao Backup: Maddox Hawkins Nachbar MoT Cato Both teams theoretically have a certain balance of offence and defense.
I'm just hoping that if we put the young guys in there, maybe they would show some desire out there. The current group of players sure ain't showing it. They're not showing me they want it. They just look like they're going through the motions, waiting for the season to end so they can regroup in the offseason and get ready for next season.
Consider this: I was at the Spurs game last night. In the first half with roughly 6:10 left, the lineup was: Yao MoT Rice Cat Franchise We gained 7 points in that time. Again, to end the game, with around 4:38 left, we went back to that lineup. Again, that's when we made our final push, and brought the game to almost within reach. Those 5 need to be on the court together longer than freaking 10+ minutes.
My five starters : Steve at the Two, Maddox at the one, Ming at the five, Rice or Nachbar at the three, and Cato at the four spot. 2nd unit: Mobley at the two, Moochie at the one, Taylor at the five, Eddie at the four, and JP a the three. This maybe drastic but changes nee to be made to make the playoffs.
I think most everyone agrees with PG: Francis starts, Moochie and Maddox backups. C: Yao starts, Cato, Collier backups. It is the other players that can do well if you utilizes their strong suits and hide their weaknesses or vice versa. PF: M. Taylor: Avg def, good low post offense. Griffin: better than avg def, avg shooting. SG, SF: Posey, Hawkins, T Morris: Good defense, avg shooting. Rice, Boki: Weak def, good outside shooting. Mobley: good def, better than avg shooting, can create shots. When Yao (off) plays, it sounds reasonable to play Griffin (def)with him. On the other hand, Taylor (off) goes with Cato (def) which is what we have now. A few changes that I would suggest: Yao gets doubles more than Taylor and passes better so you need someone to make an outside shots: Rice, Boki. When you have the shooters in the game, use them. i.e., when Rice is in, run picks for him or start the play thru Yao and see if either Yao or Rice can get a shot out off that set. Don't have Rice in there and the guards dominate the offensive sets and Rice ends up just playing (or not) defense. We have enough offensive talents, Francis, Cat, Yao, M. Taylor, Rice, Boki. Try to keep 3 of them out there at the same time but maybe not more than 3 for long. Sometimes we have 4 offensive players playing at the same time, they don't get used on offense but have to defend (which may not be their strong suit). Other times, we have 2 or even just 1 offensive player in the game (Mobley or M. Taylor). They had to make play when the opps are geared to stop them. The argument to make Francis into a SG is not great. You pay a lot for him (draft picks and money) and not use 100% of his talents that way. He is a PG that can shoot, use him that way. If you want an Allan Houston, get a player that plays that way. The problem is not Francis and Mobley but it's too much of them, at the same time. With this reasoning, maybe it is beneficial for Mobley to come off the bench. I would have Francis (off), Hawk (def), Yao (off), Griffin (def), Rice (off) (or Boki) start. Start 2/5 of the offense thru Yao, 2/5 thru Francis, run 1/5 plays for Rice. Moochie (?), Mobley (off, def), Cato (def), Taylor (off), Posey (def)(or T. Mo) come off the bench. Start 1/2 of the plays thru Mobley, 1/2 thru Taylor. Of couse, Francis, Mobley still play a lot of minutes so Francis adds to the offense of the second unit and Mobley gets some minutes with the 1st squad too. You will need to adjust the offensive sets to get each players some plays and mix them up.
Posey and Hawk are the only two players who are willing to commit their bodies on D. Others are not even close. Posey is a poor man's Artest. He needs coaching and teaching. When he begins to mature, he will be the best defender and hustler on the team. Just don't ask him to shoot 3s. I often see TMo lost in defense. The guy has no game, period. Hawk would render more help to this lineup than TMo. Rice is done. It's time to give precious PT to others. MoT will be murdered at defensive end in the Western Conference. His low post ISO with strong side clear-up is fool's gold. He is better suited to play against second string of opposing forwards. With heavy doses of coaching and teaching (bball side of Viagra), Posey and Griffin can be groomed to be defensive forces. Yao can hold his own at 5 defensively. Steve and Cat will always be defensive liabilities against the west contenders. If we want the Rockets to play real defense, PF and SF positions are the only hopes.
I am not sure of the exact lineups, but here are some guidelines I would use. 1. Ming and Francis should not be out of the game at the same time. (see Lakers and Jazz rotation) 2. Moochie should only be in if Francis is not. (Francis ends up being the PG so Moochie ends up being the SG) 3. Mo Taylor should always be in with Cato. (Otherwise we end up with no post up player) 4. To a lesser degree, two of the three of Francis, Mobley, and Rice should be on the court the same time. (Otherwise not enough good shooters) You obviously have to make adjustments for foul trouble and hot players, but I feel the Rocket too often end up with incoherent teams (ex. no defense or no offense) on the court without a good reason. Any know of a good line up coach?
I think Rockets have a good rotation. I like to break down the players into offensive and defensive players. First of all I think Mobley and Taylor should always come off the bench. Those 2 are our sparks off the bench. Taylor is only effective on iso low post. Also, never have Yao and Taylor on the floor at the same time. I'm also thinking that by next season Rice will be gone and Boki must take his place. I have to agree that Francis and Yao should always be in at the same time. so it should look like this: 1) Francis 2) ??? (We need a pure shooter....Kareem Rush??) 3) Posey 4) Griffin 5) Yao 6) Moochie 7) Mobley 8) Boki 9) Taylor 10) Cato No that's a balanced attack
I think it is worth a shot for Rudy to insert Taylor and Rice into the starting lineup for the Rockets to see if it gives them a shot in the arm. Perhaps help the Rockets start off the game hot with some scoring punch. It wouldn't be the best defensive unit on the floor, we would have to hope our "TEAM" defense can help the Rockets in that phase of the game. In terms of rotations.... I do believe that Yao and Taylor can and should play together, they seem to have a good relationship. However they BOTH can't be out of the game at the same time. Cato/Griffin line up doesn't work (at this time) because neither of them can play the low post game. We need at least ONE low post player on the floor to give the Rockets a balanced attack. This is a major reason when Griffin needs to develop that low post game. When We had that lineup last year we all assumed that Griffin would be that low post player. Just because we have Yao now should not deter us from our original plan. Griffin HAS to be a low post player with low post moves. In thinking in terms of the future with the Rockets.... I love the idea of Taylor and Mobley coming off the bench. Mobley would be the spark from the guard position and Taylor the spark at the Forward Position. And perhaps have Nachbar be the third spark. Think in terms of Sacramento's group of B. Jackson, Hedo and Keon Clark. You have your guard, swingman and front court guy coming off the bench. You mesh part of that lineup with the starters and there shouldn't be that much of a break in your momentum or production from the offensive/defensive end. What does that leave our starting lineup looking like? Francis and Yao are locks and I don't mind Griffin if he can start to produce. The swing postion (2 and 3 spots) need some work however. The Rockets need a "combo guard" that can play the 2 spot but also handle the ball and take some PG duties from Francis (think Brent Barry). This would also allow that person to play PG when Francis is out along with Mobley as the "second unit." Mobley and Francis log tremendous minutes. We need to cut them down. We need a SOLID 3 guard rotation. We THOUGHT we had that with Moochie and that is obviously not the case. Depending on what we have at the 2 will effect what we have at the 3. If we have a solid consistant shooter at the 2 then we can look to a more traditional role player at the 3 such as T-Mo or Posey. But if we have a streaky shooter at the 2 (such as Mobley is now) then we need something more consistant at the 3. Either the 2 or the 3 HAS to be consistant enough perimiter shooter to stretch defenses to allow Yao (and any other low post player) room to operate. Chris
About James Posey: RT is pulling a Shandon Anderson again. JP is not a spot up shooter and shouldn't be asked to fill that role. He can hit the occasional 3, put his % speaks for itself. He is a slasher and can get garbage points on breaks, rebounds and he has a decent midrange jumper coming off screens. Let's play to his strengths and not ask him to be something he isn't. We do need his defense. He is the anti-Rice, but with an upside. And he's pretty good at getting the ball to Yao. 10-12 points, good D, ~2 steals, and 5-8 boards will work for me. D R
It appears that our offense demands that the SF be someone that can shoot the 3pt shot. Pippen could never get a hold of what he should do in our offense, Shandon had problems and now Posey is having the same problems on the offensive end. I agree we should play to these players strengths. It is for that reason that I always wonder why we have so many guys (Posey and Griffin) outside the three point line awaiting passes instead of MOVING without the ball, cutting to receive passes for higher percentage shots. Chris
I will be very happy if Posey has 10 ppg, 2spg and 5 rpg with 30+ mpg next season, while doing more blue-collar work for the team on defense. I want Steve to lose 1 rpg to 5 and spend more energy on fast breaks. Cat is already around 5 rpg. If Ming and Eddie can get 10 rpg each with 30+ mpg next season, the combined RPG from the starting lineup would be 35. I expect the second unit to have around 15 rpg. That would give us about 50 rpg. Awsome! The key is Eddie. Yo, Eddie, please lose your 3s and play like a 20 year old.
