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Lebron chokes again

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Rockets Pride, Feb 13, 2011.

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  1. francis 4 prez

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    the entire way the game was played favored offensive players more in mj's time.
     
  2. ItsMyFault

    ItsMyFault Member

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    Not really. It's favoring players more now. The physicality isn't the same, the rules are more in favor of offensive players.

    Jordan would have it easier now. LeBron would have had it harder in Jordan's era.
     
  3. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    Dominique Wilkins put up 28+ 5-6 times in his career during that era. It's safe to say Lebron would have very little trouble playing in that era, or any era.
     
  4. ItsMyFault

    ItsMyFault Member

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    Yes, and he did that without the amount of FTA's LeBron gets today. Players today heavily rely on whistles and they complain when they don't get them even for marginal touch fouls.

    LeBron through 689 games in his career: 4540 FTM 6082 FTA

    Dominque Wilkins through 1074 games in his career: 6031 FTM 7438 FTA

    Given that LeBron doesn't get the calls due to the physicality of the game back then, he would definitely be scoring less.
     
  5. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    Dominique averaged 7 free throws per game in his career. And if you take away his last few years past his prime, he was at around 8-9 ft attempts per game. Lebron averages 9 ft attempts per game. That's not a huge difference. Shave a point off of Lebron's average then if you really want.

    Furthermore, the game was much faster back then with a ton of fast breaks (unless you play for the Knicks/Pacers...), something Lebron would absolutely beast at as he's arguably the fastest guy from one side of the court to another we've seen. He would gobble those points up.
     
  6. ItsMyFault

    ItsMyFault Member

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    Sorry but I refuse to believe he'd be BETTER when it was more physical than in today's game where the game favors the offense just because the pace might have been faster. Jordan on other hand would average close to 40 with todays rules.
     
  7. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    You are aware Lebron only average 8 ft a game this year right, and he still put up a historic season. And outside of Dwight Howard, nobody hit double digits in FT attempts this year. The 2nd highest was EIGHT. Lebron averaged less FTs than freakin' Kevin Love. Michael Jordan in his early physical prime went to the line 9-11 times a year. Dominique averaged 7 for his career. What makes you think he couldn't get to the line 7-8 times in that era?

    And he is a physical freak, arguably the best athlete the NBA has ever seen. And you think he can't play in a more physical style game. The dude has faced some great and physical defenses and scored v. those great defenses (Bulls/Celts/Pistons).

    The guy would dominate in any era period. He's an all-time great.
     
  8. fmp087

    fmp087 Member

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    I always thought a clutch player was a player who hit clutch shots. I feel like what you're saying is he jumps high, but he isn't a high jumper.
     
  9. bullardfan

    bullardfan なんでやねん

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    Brandon Roy, Kobe, Robert Horry and DWade (as much as i dislike him) are clutch players. Lebron could be and was in Cleveland up until any Finals but then dropped off a bit but seems to be gaining his form back slowly. Unfortunate for those of us who don't want him to succeed. I hope Bosh leaves/gets traded from Miami and wins a ring before Dwade and Lebron.
     
  10. fmp087

    fmp087 Member

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    What do you think separates their "clutchness" from lebron's? Or better yet how many clutch shots would lebron have to hit before he is considered clutch? Point is all superstars/players make and miss them, same as lebron.
     
  11. TheReason

    TheReason Member

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    Just because Kobe takes the most "clutch-time" shots, and therefore probably makes the most, does not make him clutch. I mean the dude was pissed because he didn't get to shoot when Blake, the best 3-pointer shooter on the Lakers, got a wide-open last second look to win it. That was obviously the right play to make given the situation, but Kobe wanted to shoot just for the slim chance that he would've gotten all the glory. And I'm not knocking him for it. Great players have that competitive spirit that makes them want to be the deciding factor.

    However, I don't think LeBron should be knocked for making the right play (i.e., finding the open man) regardless of the time on the clock. He plays the odds. There's a better chance of a wide-open three shooter hitting than LeBron hitting over a contested, usually double-teamed, shot. If LeBron took every last second shot, chances are he'd have a better clutch percentage than almost everyone else given his spectacular FG% (I'm not a big believer in "nerves" playing a big role in clutch-time. I think people miss more of the time than not because most players have a below 50% regular FG%).
     
  12. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    What is this based on? MJ was amazing but people fail to separate the Nike hype from the player. Sure it was more physical in the 80's/90's, however it also went both ways, MJ could be more physical offensively as well. One of his most memorable clutch jumpers, "the shot" was started with him shoving and throwing his defender to the ground. Pretty sure that wouldn't be allowed in today's NBA.

    Not only that, MJ had the luxury of being the first Air Person and unleashed dunkathons on everybody. Ridiculous athletes like Lebron, Shawn Marion, Iggy and KD weren't alive yet, and he was basically the SG version of Wilt Chamberlain, just a person born far ahead of his time. MJ would have still dominated, but I highly doubt he'd have an easy time doign it today's game. At the end of the day's he still 6'4/6'5, and he'll be guarded by almost 7 foot wings just as fast and athletic as he was.
     
  13. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    Sometimes I watch those 80's games on espn. They played no defense back then. The 90's were probably when defense was the best, and by the late 90's early 00's scoring was way done so they changed the rules. Jordan would average less points than he did in the 80's because they play at a slower pace and better defense.
     
  14. dkamberi25

    dkamberi25 Member

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    LeBron would be great in any era, but he could never be clutch in any era. Something about the guy when it starts getting tough, I mean real tough, and he has to find that next gear or extra effort he can't do it. What gets me are the free throws. If Shaq's rap is that of a bad free throw shooter who never hurt his team by missing when they mattered (a statement I always hated), then LeBron is the guy who will shot a decent percentage but miss the free throw when it matters the most.
     
  15. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    LeBron isn't a great free throw shooter. Last year he shot 84% from the line in clutch situations. This year 68%. Year before that 80%. Averaging out right around his career FT%.
     
  16. real_egal

    real_egal Member

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    Some people just love to see LeBron fail. I never liked him, even less after "The Decision". But as a basketball fan, I have to admit that he's a great, great player. Unclutch? He brought his team to the Finals single-handedly! Yes, there were games he didn't explode to turn the game around, and some of them were big games.

    But TD lost in first round, did that make him unclutch? Kobe just "unclutched" a few days ago. Look at LeBron's number, and watch his game, in any aspect of the game, at both ends, how could you NOT to recognize his skills and level of play?

    Dislike or even hate him for whatever reason all you want to, but please, at least respect basketball games, if you are a fan.
     
  17. dreamshake97

    dreamshake97 Member

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    :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

    holy lord… 1) Shawn Marion and Iggy and Even KD are the furthest thing from a ridiculous athlete?? WTF!! KD is a freaking jump shooter first of all.. oh wait he dunked the ball so now he is a ridiculius athlete?? HAHAHAHAHA

    2) today's game has ZERO rim protecting Centers.. during Jordan's Era he played against, 1) Kareem, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Rik Smits(7'4"), A young Dikemebe, Robert Parish, Shaq.

    Lebron has it easier now than MJ did BY FAR!

    name all these 7 foot wings that play in the NBA right now that are "just as athletic as MJ".. please name all these players??

    seriously the most ridiculous stuff i've ever read in my life.. MJ not only averaged more PPG in the playoffs than Lebron EVER will. he was also 10 times more efficient doing it.. please research nba finals games, playoffs and regular season and it will show how his game would take off to another level when playoffs came around..

    wow.. i can't believe this is even being discussed… IGGY and Marion as Ridiculous athletes?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :eek:
     
  18. dreamshake97

    dreamshake97 Member

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    to add to my post…

    please name 1 dominate rim protecting center that LeBron has faced??

    and DO NOT say Dwight… because Dwight would get his no post moves self destroyed against the likes of centers from the 90's..
     
  19. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    What does that have to do with Dwight being a rim protector?

    Smits/Parish were not rim protectors.

    Even Ewing wasn't that great. Most of those centers were in the Western conference away from Jordan.

    This argument is ridiculous, but you are being ridiculous.
     
  20. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    Look, Lebron have been very clutch SOMETIMES, and have been very un-clutch SOMETIMES too.

    I still remember when he scored the entire Cav team's final 25 points to beat the Pistons in overtime. No one can get any more clutch than that.

    I also remember his non-exist fourth quarter performance from last year finals. No one can get any more un-clutch than that.

    He will continue to show both clutch and choke performances.
     

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