I'm not sure of the name of the book, but when I was a kid I read a Dr. Zeuss about a race of wierd looking creatures who looked almost exactly alike, except there was a kind who had 2 stripes around their neck, and another who only had one...or something like that. Anyways, due to this seemingly insignificant detail, these creatures broke into two groups, grew to dislike each other, eventually hated each other, and I think went to war about it. It might have been spots, not stripes, or it may have been something else...I don't remember the details, but I do remember the point : We create barriers between ourselves for silly reasons, and we allow those barriers to become more important than the many, many things we have in common. We do it over skin color, sexual inclination, ect...and if we all had the same skin color we would do it over eye color, or height, or something equally important. One of the worst developments I have seen in this site in the last year or so is the remarkable rise in the tendacy to label people, and thereby immediatley dismiss their views. We have even gotten to the silly point of creating abbreviated titles for said labels, such as M.A.S.H., F.A.R.T. etc...in the past couple of days I have seen no fewer than three new ones advocated in here, and it's really disapointing... We are all fans of the Rockets, or at the very least basketball fans in general. What is more, we all have another common link: we like to talk basketball, otherwise we wouldn't be in here. Given these two commonalities, why do we want to get to the point where we are creating artificial barriers between each other based on our differing points of view? If you don't agree with someone's point, disagree with them, or ignore them...but what purpose does it serve to immediately label a view you disagree with as being representative of some sort of agenda, and by doing so seek to invalidate that point? If it's invalid, show it...if it's just another point you disagree with, pay it no mind. We have too many things in life which seperate us that shouldn't, let's not create more. Much has been made in here of the influx of new fans who are mainly here out of interest in Yao Ming....I say great, and welcome! We can use all the fans we can get. How is that kind of perspective less valid than any other? Where is the rule book on becoming a fan of a particular team? If there is one, I'd have to say that following a particular player's career across an entire ocean, and on top of that trying to bridge culture and often language obstacles in order to do so is at least as legitimate a reason for becoming a fan as I have had for some of the teams I am a fan of...For God's sake, when I was about 10 I became a fan of the 49ers because I liked their uniforms. Does that make me somehow less of a fan now after all these years than someone who decided to follow them because he appreciated the genius that is Bill Walsh? Or just someone who grew up in S.F. and followed geographic tendancies? I certainly don't think so... So why do we seek to dismiss a question from such a fan about Ming as being without value because they are Rockets fans mostly out of loyalty to him? First of all, that may not make their point erroneous, and second of all, weren't we all excited about the huge new fan base Yao Ming would bring? Is this the kind of welcome we want to give to our new legions of fans; to disrespect them and dismiss their view because it might come from a different perspective than ours? The only consistent commonality I have seen thus far in our new Yao-based fans is that they tend to be courteous, respectfull, and enthusiastic. I would hope we could at least be the same... And why do we immediately dismiss questions about Francis or Mobley or Rudy as 'haters' or 'bashers'? Where does it say that a fan must only see the positive, and must not have concerns, or if they do, by all means keep it to themselves? That may be your opinion....does that mean you only think that because you fit some pre-conceived label of Steve or Mobley 'protectors' or ' panderers'? Why does everyone who disagrees with our point of view have to either be an idiot, or have some deep-seeded agenda to say negative things about certain players? I agree that those guys are out there, but by applying lables to that point of view, you are becoming sophomoric, and when you dismiss all points of view other than your own, you lose any opportunity of learning something new. Another label is 'newbie', which is the ultimate in snobbery. People are representative of their points of view and their personalities....What does seniority have to do with that? I am not saying that everyone does this, but there are those in here who still act like those idiots in high school who somehow feel better about themselves for having been somewhere longer than someone else, and what is more, feel the need to share that feeling. If being senior means anything, shouldn't it mean that we represent what this site is about to the newer members? And is that what we want to represent, that we place such value on having been posting in this site 8 months or 2 years or whatever more than another individual that we feel that gives us the right to dismiss them and their opinions? Clutch has done a remarkable thing here...he has created a site where we fans can commune over many subjects, most notably our love of the Rockets, and one of the cornerstones of that community is discussion. When we start putting up labels, we start breaking down the lines of communication, just as happens in society. Do we really want to start breaking each other up into groups that we look down on, and dismiss? What other point is there in these labels but to divide 'us' from 'them', with the others being anyone who happens to disagree with us on a particular issue? If we are really the kind of people who don't want to hear other perspectives, what the hell are we doing in a BBS? Yes, breaking people down into groups so we can belittle and/or dismiss them is almost endemic, but is that a positive aspect of society, or one we would do better without? It might be a little much for us to try and eliminate label-based prejudice in the 'real world', like racism, political partisanship, or whatever, but it's not too late to correct the disturbing trend towards a version of that kind of closed-mindedness here, amongs those of us who have so much in common. I say we are better than that.
Half of the Sneetches have bellies with stars, and half of the Sneetches have no stars on thars. The problem is, all of the Sneetch Dads and Mothers want bellies that look like the ones of the others. But here comes that sly guy, Sylvester McBean, and his magical Star-On and Star-Off Machine, Who says "Step right in, I'm the Fix-it-Up Chappie. I'll change all your bellies and then you'll be happy!"
LOL! I'm not sure if I should be happy that you know it so well, or worried.... Thanks for the assist, though.
Great post Macbeth, this is the first post worth my lurker (oh no another label! j/k ) butt coming out to reply to you. I support this view 100% and hope to see more great posts from you. Ehehe, you are now on my lurker radar for readworthy posts so don't disappoint me.
It was a good post but you act like labels are something new around here ... been around since the beginning and we've had plenty of times when the bbs was split into different camps...let's see.. the big optimist vs pessimist battle ...then the cheerleaders vs the realists ... the pippin lovers vs the haters...the Dream debacle blah blah etc etc ..same ole same ole
I love Dr. Seuss. Macbeth, thanks for the post. I have been contemplating writing something to the same effect. Just didn't have the time to come around to do it. You said it a lot better than I would have done.
It has permeated our modern culture. 1) Political correctness 2) Shhhh...don't say something that offends people 3) And censorship I pray that these aren't becoming the American way.
It seems to be getting a lot worse to me...but either way, it's a negative quality, and an old wrong isn't a right one. WHich way do you want to go?
I posted this in another thread, but......I feel it could be of some use here. Excellent post Macbeth. I appreciate your honesty. Everyone living in the Houston area should not be surprised by the behavior in this forum. I'm 26 years old and as far back as I can remember Houston fans have always been the same. When the team is winning, Houston fans are the most active and supportive fans you can find. However, Houston fans are also well documented as straying off and criticizing whenever our teams aren't playing well. Not like normal fans, but to greater extremes. I wish our fans were more loyal to these teams. I wish Houston fans were supportive even when the team isn't doing so well. Look at Sacramento fans. They had continuous sell-out crowds even before they were any good. The Knicks too. They haven’t had a very good team in a while and they just finally didn't sell-out a game for the first time in ten years. Hell, I just wish the Rockets could sell-out a game once when its not the playoffs. I think being a true fan means that you stick with your team no matter what. You don't bash them ever, but instead suggest methods of improvement in play. Their is no reason to suggest trades, because that is the same as giving up on your team, not to mention its a pointless possibility. You don't have to be a pessimist in life, trust me, you're wasting your time if you are. Nothing productive ever comes from pessimism, remember that. That's my opinion. I hope it makes sense to some fans in this forum.
MacBeth, that was simply beautiful. I am a hater... argh, I mean Rocket fan because I am critical of my favorite team? I loved your post. Have a great day!!
I think your're confusing bandwagon fans with critical fans. Only one of those groups can be considered "die-hard."
1) I agree with your 1st statement, but stick to me means root for, not necessarilly agree with. 2) I don't agree with the trades thing....One of the best things about being a fan of a particular team is pseudo-fantasizing about being their gm, and I personally am always writing down trades for my teams on napkins, the back of school-notes, etc. I do agree that there are a lot of posters in here who propose trades that are either based on the principle that other teams are just out there waiting to see what they can do to help us get better, or worse still, just to make them...I try to never do the one, and only do the other in fun, and do neither in here. But take away trade-talk from a fan discussion group, and you've taken away one of the areas of the most fun, IMO.
Does anyone mind if we label people "Exaggerators?" Does that have an agenda? Yes. It has an agenda to eradicate falsely propping points of view with exaggeration. imo, people who exaggerate have an agenda or a shallow way to argue, not the people who call out exaggerators. Exaggeration breeds exaggeration and more and more shallow arguments. for instance, <blockquote><hr><i>originally posted by MacBeth</i> Why does <b>everyone</b> who disagrees with our point of view have to either be an idiot, or have some deep-seeded agenda to say negative things about certain players? <hr></blockquote> What is the agenda behind this exaggeration?
With all due respect, I think you missed the point I was making...I was implying that obviously not everyone who disagrees with us has an agenda, not that no one does, and when we act as if everyone who does anything is coming from the same point of view, we are doing a disservice. For example, I don't think that everyone who exaggerates is doing so with only the two points you had in mind...obviously some are doing it for effect, as hyperbole, or even, like myself, to imply the idiocy of blanket labeling. The fact that you mis-interpreted my point kind of makes my point, in my opinion, especially when you used a lable to do it.
