DaDakota states that Francis as good as he is he cannot touch Jordan's rookie yr. the following is Jordan's rookie yr. stats Year Team GS GP Min FG% 3pt FT 84-85 Chi 82 82 38.3 .515 .173 .845 OFF DEF TOT AST STL BLK PPG 2.0 4.5 6.5 5.9 2.39 0.84 28.2 The following are Francis's stats after only 34 games : 1999-2000 S T A T I S T I C S REBOUNDS G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3P% FT% 34 34 35.4 216-487 .444 .305 .771 OFF DEF TOT APG STL BLK PTS PPG 2.1 2.6 4.8 6.9 53 11 603 17.7 Looking at this stats you might think that well, he does have a pt... but what we must not fail to realize that back when Jordan first came into the league there was a problem w/the league , it was not a very good one , the quality had taken somewhat of a nosedive and to tell it as it is , Jordan would not have had those numbers if he would have entered the league as a rookie in todays NBA ... he would have been good well , lets make it great specially w/the no touch rules now in place , I believe he was just too ahead of his time back in '84 but times have a tendancy to catch up and due to better physical training and other advances in the preparation of players it would be harder to accomplish this same feat , .... do you think Francis would have had simular stats if he would have entered the league back in 1984 ? [This message has been edited by 3pointer (edited January 18, 2000).]
The league was a lot tougher then. There's been 6 teams added since that time, thus watering down the talent, and you can't forget about the new rules instituted this year. Imagine not being able to put a hand on Jordan when he was younger.
Come on, let's not make excuses here. Francis is good, but he is NO JORDAN !!! Jordan was a one of a kind player, who could dominate a game, right out of college. Francis is not near the finished product coming out as Jordan was, can he get there? Only time will tell. DaDakota
I dont want to go and compare Francis to Jordan, but this is a fun post so: 1 factor to address is that, Jordan was from day 1 the absolute man on his team. While Francis had to relinquish to the greats of Hakeem, and Barkley early. Since the two have been gone Francis' numbers have steadily improved, even though I believe Mobley still takes more shots, and has many more plays run for him. I feel as though if his progression continues, Francis could quite conceivably finish off the season with stats similar to: 22-24 pts, 8-9 assists, 5-6 boards, 1.5 steals, 48 FG%, 80 FT%, and maybe around 35% 3's. Making the comparison much closer. And thats if Francis continues to come together as a player.
Francis can and should be compared to Jordan. The Torch has been passed my friends. And most of you never even saw Michael hand it over. Look at Stevie's numbers, he's a rookie, and he's putting stats out in all major categories. All major categories. You almost never see that out of a rookie. He's learning how to lose right now, which is just as important as learning how to win. Francis is the next big thing, but you don't need me to tell you that, you already know it to be true. Of course you do. Comparisons are part of the game and are an important part of it. He's been comparing hismself to Jordan his whole life, and that's how he got to where he is, so don't be afraid to do the same thing yourself. That's how we reach lofty goals.
We might as well realize that there will be players better than Jordan. And then there will be a player greater than those guys. That's how things work in sports. Jordan may be the best of our generation. Just like Wilt was the best of his. There should be a few players more complete than Mike coming along as he (as well as Magic) is the model modern and future ballers seek to improve upon. I think Francis is one of those better players. Just as Jordan was something that the NBA had never seen before, so too is Francis. (Hell, so is Garnett.) Francis combines MJ's scoring with Magic's court vision and rebounding. I also think Jordan and Francis are too different--in both playing style and role on their teams--to compare using statistics. Jordan shot first on every play. Francis passes up a lot of shots to create for his teammates. Jordan's role was to score like crazy (rack up 35 points). Francis' role is to strike a balance between scoring and running the offense (25 points and 10 assists). Francis (like Isiah Thomas) could put up 30 a night easily. But that wouldn't be best for the Rockets. It seems Stevie is learning that scoring makes it easier to assist as opposed to concluding that scoring makes it easier to score more--like Iverson.
Phi- I partially agree with you. There will be players of better ability in the NBA, simply because of the constant evolution and improvement of the NBA player. However when talking about the greatest of all time there is still a major argument for Wilt/Russell/Big O. whose time has alrady passed. Michael to the our current generation (maybe age 15-35) is generally regarded as the best, while the older generation would more likely argue for one of the players they saw in their primes. My argument is I don't think we will ever see a player lead the league in scoring virtually every year, while being able to still win 6 championships in his last full 6 years. In addition Jordan transcended the game (see the shoes, the commercials, his image everywhere still). It is not fair to compare anyone to MJ. I really compare someone comparing Francis to MJ like people comparing Mutombo to Dream. I purposely decided to compare him to another legend dear to our hearts to show how ridiculous it is to compare a young player with talent to a legend, and no I don't compare Dikembe to Dream in any means. Francis may become great- but there will only be one MJ.
Jordan's rookie year stats are better than Francis', so obviously some of you feel this automatically makes Jordan the better player. If that is the case then let me point you attention to the rookie stats of David Robinson and our own Hakeem Olajuwon. Now pick yourself up off the floor, go appologize to Hakeem and think before you speak. Sorry, rookie stats are not always the best way to compare players !!!!!!!!!!!! I would take Olajuwon over Robinson any day. Also the fact that Jordan and Francis play 2 different positions could also have a bearing on who is the better player. Ciao, FantasyGM
If it was Vince Carter instead of stevie then I would feel that this thread would have some relevance, but Francis compared to Jordan????????????? Steve Francis reminds me more of kevin johnson. Damn good player but no where being anything close to the #1 superstar of the league.
Isn't it immaterial if Francis can be considered the next Jordan? If Francis is soon considered among the elite in the league and the other keys fall into place : 1. The rest of the team is god enough 2. The coaching is equal to the task 3. The right team in the right place at the right time 4. A bit of luck Lets pose a question similar in nature to another current thread. Which would you rather have? 1. A player that could be considered better than Jordan, but never won a championship because the other factors never fell into place. 2. A great team that was able to win several championships and had a superstar in Francis. Mango
Frankly, there's no way to know yet. Do me a favor: go to espn's players section, and click on about ten different players, and view their rookie stats. I think you'll find some interesting things... for example, this rookie line: 23.7 pts 10.6 rbs 1.9 stls 2.2 blocks Wow! Looks like a future "BPOTP." Nope, it's just Terry Cummings. He was certainly a good player in his time, for a while... but was never BPOTP. The lesson: it's almost impossible to determine potential from the outset. Francis looks promising... let's leave it at that for a while.
Like I said before , Francis will NOT be Jordan , Francis will be Francis and he will be known as Francis ! You also have to remember that Francis only played one yr. at a jr. college and 1 yr. at Merryland... 2 yrs of organized basketball... who knows how good he could have been if he would off stayed longer and polished his game even more ! Yes , only time will tell but it's looking good so far !
JeffB, I love this thread....GOOD POST!.. Stevie has the same joy for the game that Magic had,that amazing ability to thread the needle with tight passes, and the court vision to go along with it. He possesses M.J.'s killer instinct,lightning first step,work ethic to get better and better,and incredible athletic ability.Stevie's shot is much more advanced at this point in their careers,and he definitely has shown he wants that last shot.I'm beginning to wonder if we might one day see a repeat of what Tiny Archibald did.I know it's a long shot,but who knows?but.........There's only one M.J. and.........Thank God there's only one Stevie Francis! Good to be back,HH
3pointer- You are only looking for trouble comparing anyone to Jordan. Francis is good, hopefully one day great, but he will never be like Mike. There will never be another Mike, although every superstar will be somehow compared to MJ. Just let Francis play his game, comparing anyone to MJ is pointless.
comparing francis to jordan?!?! not even close my friends. with the no touching rules, jordan would have scored fifty a game. and do not forgot that jordan always had the ability to dominate the game by using his offense, his defense, or both. francis can't even come close to being compared to him, yet. maybe one day, but definitely not his rookie year.
He may not be Jordan, but by the time Francis is through with his career, he will be arguably the best PG ever.
You can't compare David Robinson's rookie year stats with Hakeem Olajuwon's as David came to the NBA after his senior year and 2 years in the Navy. That's a 3 year maturity (both mentally and physically) over Hakeem. And as someone mentioned earlier, Francis reminds me more of an upgrade from Kevin Johnson than the next Jordan. I beg to differ that Jordan's role is different from Francis' role. Jordan was basically playing the point for most of his years in Chicago. He's got a career 5.9 APG. He far distanced B.J. Armstrong in assists in their first 3peat. He would bring the ball up the court at least 40% of the time sharing the duties with Pippen and Armstrong.
Am glad I posted this post , it seems some of you like it.. thanks .. well , as far as I can see so far this is a summary of everyone posts : 1) They played different positions therefore, making comparisons a little bit harder. 2)There will be only one M. Jordan.... true. 3)this is from JeffB " We might as well realize that there will be players better than Jordan. And then there will be a player greater than those guys. That's how things work in sports." as true as it gets!. 4)Some of you don't even want to knowledge that this topic should even be brought up. 5)This comes from Dreamshake "1 factor to address is that, Jordan was from day 1 the absolute man on his team. While Francis had to relinquish to the greats of Hakeem, and Barkley early. " 6)PhiSlammaJamma goes even a little bit further with this statement : "Francis can and should be compared to Jordan. The Torch has been passed my friends. And most of you never even saw Michael hand it over." 7)4chuckie talks about the generation factor , just like Mike is the best player of most of our generation , Wilt , Dr. J will be the best players of other generations. .... In conclution , we all have different opinions , from ..." Francis is no where close to being close to Jordan" . To ," it is worth comparing them specially since Jordan was what Francis used to built his game around" , he compared himself to Jordan so it's only logical for us fans to compare him to his mentor.... The thing that really makes me dream so much is if Francis is able to imitate Jordan and then take it to the next level... can that be possible ? sure it can ! put it this way , many people thought it was not possible to land on the moon , break an atom or fly but as we all know , it was possible!
