Any of you BBSers check out the John Walker 'interview' on CNN? I think CNN.com is supposed to have a lot of the feature story up on the site. CNN People highlighted a socially liberal upbringing in which he was encouraged to explore different religions, make his own decisions, influenced by the biography of Malcolm X, and attended a private high school where students are given a lot of freedom to manage their own education (I forget what type of school that's called) He went abroad to study Arabic after converting to Islam, enrolled in a fundamentalist Islamic school, met up with Taliban people (I forget which of the latter two events came first) and then joined the cause. I want to think he didn't know what he was getting himself into, which still might be true to a significant extent, but it's hard to believe he didn't have a good sense what was going on. I guess for me, politically, I don't believe in American exceptionalism, so I feel he should get similar treatment as other Taliban fighters, but I'm not gung-ho about stringing people up in a vigilante style (not that that's what's going on, but I think a lot of Americans would support that). I think he went for the wrong cause, but I'm definitely sympathetic to him trying to broaden himself, not thinking America's all that, and opening himself up to the right cause. At the same time, I'm not a little jealous that his parents so easily supported him both financially and emotionally, seemingly, so that he could discover himself halfway around the world. Not a little like the dissatisfied middle-class white kids of the '60s who enjoyed the luxury of throwing themselves into causes. It's funny, I simultaneously strongly identify with and look down upon Walker's need to find fulfillment in a counter-culture. I think he's young, naive, idealistic, and easily convinced about the rightness of causes. Hey, that sounds just like me. Stupid bleeding-heart liberal; making all of us stupid bleeding-heart liberals look bad. On a serious note, I think the actions he's taken are extremely grave. I may identify with his counter-cultural inclinations, but I don't take lightly his decision to engage in acts of violence, and his possible support for the 9-11 attacks whatsoever. I think he needs to be held accountable for his actions, and I hope the courts are fair to him, although what 'fair' is I don't have a clear idea, and I imagine we'd have difficulty coming to a consensus.
Yeah, I saw the special and the People special lastnite too. Very interesting. Did you see the letter his uncle wrote the New York Times? hmm, I didn't save it anywhere,sorry) He brought up an interesting point I'm sure they'll use in court and its that he went to Afghanistan BEFORE all this attack on America happened. He joined the Taliban in fighting the Northern Alliance for an pure Muslim state, not to kill Americans or bomb the World Trade Center or attack America. By the time the attack on America occured, it was too late, he was caught up in it all. Do you think he knew about the WTC attack beofore it happened? Do you think he was invovled in the planning? I don't think so. He was just a Taliban scrub fighting for a pure muslim state, waaaay on down on the totem pole. What was he gonna do, just quit the Taliban and walk home? I am not for hurting this guy in the least bit. A little jail time to think about his decisions, let him chill out his mind and thoughts for a while, a little physco evaluation ya know... but thats about it. No more murder necessary.
He was an Al Queda member, and that organization clearly believes in one all encompassing muslim state, at the expense of every other kind of state. Ignorance is no excuse, and neither is being naive. I think its a big cop out to let him off with lame excuses like 'he didn't know' and 'he wasn't there to fight the US.' He was there to fight against any form of government other than the fanatical Islamic vision of Al Queda, and now he should face the consequences. Al Queda had declared publicly their intention to fight the US at least in 1998, predating his joining the group. And aren't these excuses just a little convienent NOW that he's been captured. Remember that he could certainly have surrendered when the prison compound revolt happened. There was plenty of confusion and many of the prisoners DID NOT take up arms again. Walker did, and he only put down his AK-47 when they flooded the basement he was holding out in. This guy is full of s*** and his excuses don't add up. I've got nothing against his family trying to save his stupid ass, 'cause I'm sure I'd do the same for a son or brother, but every else needs to wake up. If I am a member of the Gestapo, but I don't pull the trigger on any Jews/Gypsies/Poles/Russians et al myself, do I get relieved of any culpability? Doesn't my presence, even doing other duties, enable the Gestapo to allocate manpower in other areas where killings are taking place? Similarly, does Walkers presence fighting the Northern Alliance allow them to place one more Arab volunteer directly working on fighting US forces and attacking the West? In the zero sum world of resource allocation, Walker is just as guilty as Mohammed Atta as he is part of the same machinery and just as responsible. Trial and execution is not murder. Give this misguided individual what he deserves, a blindfold and a cigarette and a firing squad.
You're right. By that definition, it isn't murder. But, considering the fact that there doesn't seem to be any legal precedence for executing him, the only logical definition would be revenge.
I am one of the biggest supporters of this war on Terrorism and am very gung ho, however, that being said. I think this guy deserves EVERY right as an American citizen as you and I do. Plenty of Americans have fought in foreign wars, just not too many that end up fighting America AFTER they had joined the cause. I do not know if he is really Al-Queda or not, let the facts come out. He should be judged by his actions in reference to the USA, not that he was stupid in fighting for the Taliban. I wonder if any of the US citizens that went to Germany before we entered the war, quit fighting for Germany when we joined the conflict against them. It would be an interesting analogy to say the least. I will withold final judgement on my part until I hear just what his role was, if he was an Al-queda member, then he deserves to be treated as one of them. However, if he was just fighting for the Taliban, a case could be made for him to go free.....he was ONLY fighting the Northern Alliance after all, and that is not illegal. DD
He is an admitted member of Al-Queda. The Justice Department has already told the press that they will be seeking an indictment of Walker for a capital offense. They are seeking the death penalty, they just have not released the details. These are the facts known so far. Now, let a jury of his peers judge him as an American citizen who is innocent until proven guilty. I don't know if John Walker is guilty or not, but I have faith in our jury system.
It may not be illegal to fight in a foreign army, but it can be grounds to revoke US citizenship (though not always).
What are you talking about? There are certainly legal precedents for executing guerrillas, for sedition, and for aiding an enemy in wartime. In fact, Walkers case seems to meet the same tests as the Nipponese ( Haven) American that was sentenced to death after WWII for aiding the Nipponese prison camp guards. He was a member of Al Queda and that should be enough to meet the precedents for execution in wartime (he can't deny now that he was a member of Al Queda since he's already admitted as much).
I disagree, and I've already answered this. Resource allocation is a zero sum game for the Taliban/Al Queda. At the very least, Walker allowed one more Al Queda member to move from fighting the Northern Alliance to other Al Queda projects. As such he contributed to their attacks on the US as if he had flown that plane himself. Being a member of Al Queda is reason enough to fry the guy. Keep in mind, as I've already argued, Al Queda declared their war on the US YEARS prior to Walker joining up. To say he didn't know what he was doing NOW is pure BS designed to obsfucate his culpability.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/12/23/ret.walker.meeting.ap/index.html Looks like your boy Walker isn't quite so innocent. Now tell me he had NO IDEA what the organization he belonged to was doing.
There was a long story on NPR last week about Walker and one of their legal experts said it would be highly unlikely that he gets the death penalty mainly because, although he was attached to the organization, he was not actually involved in killing anyone directly. According to most legal experts, aiding a foreing terrorist is a most likely charge that would result at a maximum of life in prison.
Oh, I'll bet a prosecutor could get the death penalty for this guy right now. Just training in a terrorist camp under Osama bin Laden would be enough to get many a juror to vote for death if given the opportunity, I would bet. (It wouldn't be the first time I disagreed with a legal expert from NPR. Maybe their legal experts are more accurate than their military analysis when they said things like "This war is in trouble" regarding the Afgan conflict on October 27th).
I've been reading these posts in this thread, and all I have to say is this: This John Walker character truly repulses and disgusts me. I am sorry, but there is no way that I can say to give this guy a fair trial. Hanging and being drawn and quartered is not good enough for him, IMO.
I'm not really disputing what is going to happen, merely what I think should happen. I mean think about it. The government can (and has) charged get-away drivers with murder, the same as the trigger men, in robberies. Even when the driver clearly didn't anticipate violence. Even when the driver didn't know the passenger was going to rob the place. If they can do that then it seems to me they ought to be able to give this guy more than the 10 years for aiding a terrorist organization. If they can give that guy in Michigan LIFE for a coke deal he wasn't even a part of, they sure ought to be able to give this guy, who is an admitted member of the terrorist organization Al Queda, at LEAST that sentence.
