Not really sure if this belongs in here, as I don't intend it to be controversial, but given the subject matter I thought I'd play it safe... Whenever someone in here asks for us to pray for someone they know, it puts me in a quandry. As I don't believe in prayer specifically, I can never give them the support they want and need. On the other hand, the alternatives, such as " He/she'll be in my thoughts." seem trite and moreover not really all that important, as unlike the concept of prayer, I don't think our thoughts are supposed to have a positive effect on their recipiants. So I never know what to say while at the same time I want to offer what support I can. But I never raise this quandry in those threads because the issue there isn't about me at all, and I don't want to make it so...whether or not I pray is the last thing whoever posts asking for prayer needs to hear about. In the end, rather than risk being offensive or patronizing/fakje, I usually say nothing. If it's just a thread saying "something bad happened to me", I can sympathize, and try and relate, but when the person asks for prayer, I'm stuck. So what I want to know is this, and this is particularly aimed at people in here who do believe in prayer...at those times, how would you rather someone like myself express our concern without sounding trite, offensive, or making it into a theological debate which will offer you no comfort? Would you rather I say nothing? Or is " I'll keep ____ in my thoughts" not as useless and fake sounding as I feel when i go to write it? For anyone who doesn;t particularly believe in prayer, has this been a problem for you as well? Or do you place faith in the power of positive thought, which I do not? BTW, for those who have written something akin to " I'll keep ____ in my thoughts." please, please do not take this as a criticism. If you have no issues with saying it, then you are being genuine, and as such it's the right thing to say. It's just that I feel sort of fake saying it, for the reasons I expressed, and that's why it's a problem for me. For people in here who have posted these kinds of prayer posts in the past, if I did not repspond, know that I wanted to, but preffered to err on the side of not adding to your pain by saying the wrong thing. PEACE JAG
Nothing sincerely intended to benefit would offend me. I think that what I think of as prayer can take many forms, whether it's a quick thought, playing the bongos, or lighting incense. The power is in the person who sincerely acts on behalf of the one needing help, regardless of how they choose to loose it.
It's surprisingly hard to say the wrong thing, as long as you are offering genuine condolences or support. I posted a prayer thread though i'm hardly religious. The responses gave me tremendous comfort. They are clearly not the place to debate the merits of prayer. That's what we do here! Really an outcry for support and comfort. Just words, i suppose. But very powerful.
First, I applaud you on your stance. If you don't believe in prayer, it would be hypocritical of you to offer such. Second, I feel it is quite appropriate to offer a "I'll keep _____ in my thoughts...I hope they get better". It is a source of comfort to the petitioner and puts others at the forefront of your thoughts (even if for only a few moments). For those moments, you are giving something of yourself to others which is always a good thing. Third, those of us who believe in prayer (well, at least me), feel that if you sincerely keep someone in your thoughts, it is akin to praying and that God is paying attention to those thoughts.
This might sound horrible, but in the past I've been tempted to start a fake prayer thread, and just make somebody up to see how many responses it would get. I can't stand it when my wife tells me stories of people I don't know. How can I pray for them? It seems so abstract. Then again I don't view "god" as some cosmic vending machine either. It reminds me of the The Dead Milkmen's song "INSTANT CLUB HIT (YOU'LL DANCE TO ANYTHING)". But instead of dancing it is praying.
when you post something like this, you sound less and less like the nice guy i think you are. certainly you can care enough about people you've never met. we do it all the time, with and without prayer.
I know it sounds bad and I'm sorry. It's just a frustration I have with the idea of asking a god for things that the ego desires. I do care, that's the problem. (and i have multiple personalities)
i misread...it's the caring that i thought you were saying you were having a hard time with...even caring for people you don't know. i understand your frustrations with prayer...i think we've talked about those before. while you might not find it persuasive, the Lord's prayer that Jesus taught to his disciples is full of nothing more than those sorts of requests...and he starts the prayer using a word that is more readily translated to "daddy" than to "father." i certainly don't resent when my son asks me to deal with his concerns...and I don't think God minds much either. as a father, i'd be much more concerned if he never came to me with his concerns. particularly those he felt helpless with, otherwise.
I think that it is a comfort, even if you don't believe in prayer. But if you believe as I do, it definitely helps. There are no atheists in foxholes.
That's an issue that comes up often for me since I travel a lot of Christian circles without being Christian myself. I had set myself some boundaries a while back about what was and was not permissable for me to do. For example, I will not sing in church, because song is meant there as worship. However, prayer is not something I abstain from. I don't believe in the efficacy of prayer, but I'll do it anyway when someone asks me to. I decided prayer was not solely worshipful in nature, and therefore permissable for me to engage in (worship within prayer wouldn't be engaged in, though). If it is effective, good; if not, no big loss. I think it is helpful that the Christians I know are aware that I am salvation-challenged. They have no good reason to think that my prayer will be all that helpful for them. More importantly though, their faith is not so much in the efficacy of prayer but in the sovereignty of God. Not that they don't believe that prayer is important but that, more importantly, God knows all and works everything for the benefit of those who love Him. So, if the prayer thing gets screwed up, it's not like the person is left out in the cold. As for prayer threads, I usually don't respond. I might or might not pray. I know there are plenty of Christians here who can fill the need. If someone wants prayer from me, specifically, I'd refer you to someone in better standing -- there are quite a number here.
Wasn't there some science fiction book series where the author postulates some sort of dimensionality where every one is connected to everyone else, thus permitting instantaneous communications between the stars. Was it the same series that postulates this as a method of travel? These are conceivable ways thinking or wishing someone well could help them in ways we cannot now measure. Anyways, either of those sounds more likely than praying to any god. Then there's the Simpsons episode where Bart tries to telepathically communicate to Homer and instead gets control of Milhouse for a while...
Thanks, I was thinking, either Orson Scott Card or Isaac Asimov for some reason. So positive vibes can't hurt except in some Superman bizarroland world..
I'll pray for you MacB. Prayer is hard to do in its pure form, full meditation and dedication towards God. But prayer is praise of God. It's not an invoking of the greek gods ala Henry V's prayer in the play of that name. Rather, prayer is more of a way for us to communicate, mediatate, and contemplate God's mystery....but ultimately, God's will will be done. Take for instance, the Our Father... Our Father, Who art in heaven Hallowed be Thy Name; Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen. The only thing asked for is for the body of Christ, or our daily bread, which is continually given from God. The rest then trickles down and is a result of the grace of Christ...i.e. forgiveness, staying away from temptation and evil... This is a common misconception about the role of prayer...i.e. Catholics pray w/ the saints, not too the saints... and as such we can only sit in awe and wonder. But you are correct in asserting that its sometimes odd that people ask us to invoke God to do things for them. That's not usually how I pray when faced w/ such threads, I just ask that God's will be done for them, and that they come to accept it and see why it is what it is...what is lacking, and what they are blessed with. Hope this helps you understand prayer a little bit better, and I really will pray for you.
On a related note, what about when you mention some hardship in your life to someone and they come back with "I'll pray for you"? Case in point, I'm talking to my neighbor the other day, and I mention that my GF's mother is in the hospital and explain the details. He then asks, "What's her name?" which I thought was weird, but I told him her name anyway, and he follows that up with "I'll pray for her." And it was just uncomfortable. It doesn't bother me that he's religious or that he's willing to pray for someone he doesn't even know, but to just offer to do so without any request to do so came across as a little strange to me (and almost a sort of "I'm going to do something, and I'm making a point to let you know I'm doing something since it's something you wouldn't see or know about if I didn't tell you.") I'm sure he was sincere, but it just weirded me out.
I agree mrpaige, wouldn't god already know and therefore *credit* the person for his good deeds, making any mention of it to another human being almost like being boastful?
