It pains me to see the use of the word WHEN in connection with Shandon's departure... I guess that's it? Great post pops, I agree with you 98%... ------------------ "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and STATISTICS..." - Mark Twain - [This message has been edited by DarkHorse (edited May 10, 2001).]
oeilpere you surprise me. By this I assume you mean you would like to see us trade up to get a top 8 pick? Appeasing the gods may win us a top 3 pick but the only we we can pick between 5 and 8 is through trading. Would CD do that??? ------------------ ..as a man danced so the drums were beaten for him. Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info
Davo Wrote: “ ... the only we we can pick between 5 and 8 is through trading. Would CD do that???” Davo buddy, he would sell his new wife’s kitchen dinette table, complete with her favorite pasta casserole recipe just to move up a single digit! Don't ask what he would do to get to 4,5,6,7 or 8! Darkhorse wrote: “ …. It pains me to see the use of the word WHEN in connection with Shandon's departure” Darkhorse, me too. But that’s the play I hear. To answer some questions and phone calls: 1. How do we get Webber? Personally I remain adamant that we can’t at present. Let’s just assume he wants $12.5 to $14.5M a year in a multi year indexed contract. We cannot afford it outright. Let’s assume for all the franchise loyalty, for the team’s camaraderie and just to be a good guy C-Dub agrees to a sign and trade which is the most likely scenario. Who have we got that we can unload for that kinda money that the Kings want? With Jason Williams likely to follow in C-Dubs footsteps and leave the Kings also, the Kings would request any participating trade teams for players the calibre of Francis or Mobley or both. Shandon maybe a bite they will swallow but who else? No one. Not here. Not in Rocketville. Sorry Charley we want tuna with class not ones that bite you in the butt. That would leave out Cato. We would need a heads up, strong push by Webb to request to come here coupled with a aggressive (most assuredly three way) trade package that Houston would have to put together, and don’t forget a whole hell of a lotta luck and timing. 2. What’s our Draft Priority? As mentioned, trade, beg, borrow or steal to get at least one of our picks up to the 3-8 spot. Sell off, trade off or give away (obligations) the rest, but get up to the mid single digits. 3. If the Web situation falls through, where do we go? .... M. Jackson would be awfully nice. I know CD and company like him and would court him with a longterm contract .... Personally speaking ,I would like to see Mo Taylor stay and that would change some focus areas .... If Indiana makes some of the moves they need to make, there may be some personalities there that would look good in Rocket’s Red Glare .... J. O Neal may be made available,he’s being under used and over criticized there .... Portland is ready to self-destruct ( Duh, out on a limb there aren’t I?) .... If New York doesn’t get passed Toronto, and they cannot land DubYa don’t expect VanGundy to be there next season or a lot of his sweetheart players either .... I still say that Chicago, Orlando, New Jersey and Detroit will be moving players like there is a White Elephant Sale at Macy’s.... And, hey God only knows what the Grizz (sorry Memphis will come up with ....) I still see SA-R leaving. .... There are lots of possibilities in the coming weeks. Cheers. ------------------
Ahh, this is more like the Pops I know. I have a question. Rudy wants to move up bad? Could it be to nab a talented center, maybe even just a project? It isn't to nab Battier, I hope. I don't think he's worth giving up an extra pick or whatever might be packaged. Getting a good center in the draft would improve this team so much, imo. It would make the team more attractive to Webber. With Hakeem likely gone, the Cato/Collier duo is a nitemare I don't want the Rockets do have to deal with, particularly if Webber does not end up in Houston. do the Rockets consider their filling Center position a higher priority than the sf position? ------------------ snap crackle pop
Let’s assume for all the franchise loyalty, for the team’s camaraderie and just to be a good guy C-Dub agrees to a sign and trade which is the most likely scenario. Who have we got that we can unload for that kinda money that the Kings want? The salaries don't have to match. As long as we can make up the difference with our cap space, then a deal can be made (see Pippen for Roy Rogers trade). The most that Webber can make in the first year of a new deal is $12.6M (105% of his current salary). We can get real close to that in cap space, so signing him outright is possible. If the Kings believe that, then why wouldn't they take something of value in return, even if it wasn't of near equal value for Webber? ------------------
Cisco wrote: “ … do the Rockets consider their filling Center position a higher priority than the sf position? Those are the two areas of course. But they will take the best available at that spot. If it turns out to be center they take it. If it’s SF they will take that. They do seem to be leaning towards a premiere SF more and more though. I think mainly because the most desirable centers will likely be gone after the eight to twelve spots and they still feel they can get someone ( a pivot man) who dressed in the NBA last year sometime this summer. aelliott wrote: “… We can get real close to that in cap space, so signing him outright is possible. If the Kings believe that, then why wouldn't they take something of value in return, even if it wasn't of near equal value for Webber? I agree. Yes, we can sign him outright.(actually it would be pretty tight, but closer to doable than not doable). But then what? What do we do with our free agents? Where do we get the room to sign any draft picks? What about all the other gaps and holes that need filling? As you noted it is possible. But a straight purchase creates a plethora of difficulties for us, unless we can unload equal salary or very, very close to equal, to accommodate the $12.6M and give us breathing space. Ideally that would mean $10M or so, which would give us some free agent signing options, etc…. BUT: Who would the Kings want and who would they be turning down from other offers to accept a Rockets deal.? Ameche and Bo? Camby and Houston? Van Horn? For which Rockets …. Walt and Carlos? Walt and Cato? It is doable. But unless Webb committed to the Rockets and pushed super hard to close all the Kings options to the above tandems it would be extremely difficult. If the Kings know he is going they will plead for something of value. In essence, Webber would have to force the Kings to take what we give them. Some teams ( like Utah and (except for that Pippen fiasco) us too, as a matter of fact) frown on those forced sign and trades. I think Webber will be accommodating to them. A straight signing would be disastrous in my estimation. A sign and trade difficult. The key would be how committed Webb is in coming here and whether he feels a deep enough commitment to the Kings to not lay them over the coals. ------------------
Oeilpere, You hinted at Shandon and Jersey once. Would Shandon go there if it meant getting his $$$? I presume Shandon and maybe Cato or Walt + KT or a pick, something, in order to get KVH? If that's the case, are we talking KVH to keep or to trade to Chicago or Sacramento or Detroit? Just curious. ------------------
You know the answer to that one, oeilpere! That statement makes me think of another poster here whose brain-farts happen when talking to 5 people at once trying to say 25 different things. Of course, I do more than occassionally fart around here....*ugh* cheers!
I think with our situation right now, we can sign CWebb to the max if we renounce Shandon (that means no S/T, and no signing him to early bird), as well as the rest of the group (Mo, Hakeem, Bull). Though, would CWebb like a team of Francis, Moochie, Mobley, Langhi, Walt, Cato, KT, CWebb, and 3 draft picks. It depends on if CWebb chooses us as his choice, rather than a backup plan. If it's us, I'd bet Sacramento would take Walt, KT, and a conditional pick in a sign and trade. Walt will be in his last year, so he's basically a loan, and KT can fill some of CWebb's minutes at a cheap price. That'd give us close to 5 mill of extra cap space....room for Hakeem, or enough for Brad Miller tier free agent, or maybe Mo (if Dream would agree to a cap friendly minimum veteran contract)? Anything happening with Denver? They've got a couple of players (Lafrentz and Posey) that seem to be on less than solid ground that would fit our team well. Could those old Cato for Fizer rumors be rekindled? Last but not least, any draft names that might surprise (ie underclassmen)? p.s. Toronto already beat NY. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure. [This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited May 14, 2001).] [This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited May 14, 2001).]
Maybe its Martin instead of VanHorn? Martin could play the 5. ------------------ President of the Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford,Larry Hughes, and Charles Woodson fan club.
It is doable. But unless Webb committed to the Rockets and pushed super hard to close all the Kings options to the above tandems it would be extremely difficult. If the Kings know he is going they will plead for something of value. In essence, Webber would have to force the Kings to take what we give them. Some teams ( like Utah and (except for that Pippen fiasco) us too, as a matter of fact) frown on those forced sign and trades. I think Webber will be accommodating to them. All Webber has to do is decide that he wants to play in Houston and it's a done deal. If he tells them that he's going to Houston, then it doesn't really matter what any other team would offer. He leaves them with the choice of getting a little back or nothing at all. That's exactly what Grant Hill and McGrady did last year. Faced with losing Webber for nothing, Sacramento would be stupid for not doing a sign and trade and getting something back. At a minimum, they could get draft picks. Webber doesn't have that same kind of leverage with any other team, because they either don't have the same cap space or nobody would believe that he would actually sign there (CHI or LAC). I don't see how our free agents are much of an issue. Moochie's cap hold is minimal, so they can wait and sign him to an early bird deal after signing Webber. If you get Webber, then Taylor is gone. Hakeem is probably gone also. Same for Shandon. Bullard could be renounced and resigned to the 10 yr vet minimum of $1M. The draft picks shouldn't be a problem. Regardless of what happens with Webber, I don't see the Rockets hanging on to 3 picks. I think their strategy will be similar to what we saw Orlando pull off last summer with their picks. ------------------
Fizer would be a decent pickup for Sacramento, as was just mentioned. Would Cato + Walt (or) draft pick do it? ------------------
Oeilpere, You mentioned New Jersey. What about Stephen Jackson? He started out really hot & by the end of the year was no longer the starter & got very few minutes. Could he be included in any deal? For that matter, would we even want him? He's 6'8" & 220 lbs. & I believe that his 3 point shooting percentage was around 33%. What are your thoughts on him? ------------------
Hottie, Jackson is a solid scorer, but that's it. Have read several stories quoting Byron Scott on why his minutes decreased and his said "He only wants to score" and that until he learns to play some defense and some team offense he will ride the pine, anyway maybe stil some potential as last year was his first in the NBA and if he had attended 4yrs of college instead of playing various places round the world (including Australia and he got cut real quick) it would have been his rookie year anyway. In short, can score but has a lot to learn, still may not be any worse than Walt cept his 3 is not as good. Smeg ------------------ "The things I enjoy most, I suck at: 1) Sex: everything's fine until she makes noises." - Achebe
Didn't Jackson go to Yates High School? ------------------ President of the Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford,Larry Hughes, and Charles Woodson fan club.
He might be a good sixth or seventh man off the bench if he's that consistent. If he can score consistently every game, I could see us giving up some of the 3 pointers in exchange for steady points that you can count on. With Walt, you don't know if he's going to light it up or if he couldn't hit the side of a barn with a bulldozer, from one game to the next. Maybe he could fill the role that Mobley did, before he became the starter & he's cheaper than Walt. ------------------
OP, if Sac is as smart as two rocks (twice as smart as a rock) they will have ferreted out what crap we have on our roster. The Pippen signing was the gift that keeps on giving. It seems to me we are down to Mo and Shan for a sign and trade. Possibly with Collier or Langhi and pick. Yes, No? ------------------
Oeilpere, before you disappear again... You mentioned Shandon and New Jersey once. Well? Possible? Shandon and Cato or Walt and KT for KVH? KVH to Sacramento for Webber? I know it's only speculation but I had wondered along these lines even before you barely mentioned Shandon and the Nets. All teams come away happy. Would Shandon go to Jersey if he got his $$$? Certainly Sacramento would take KVH? ------------------
Oeilpere, How possible do you think it is for the Rockets to pull off an Orlando-esque move of unloading picks and players for future considerations to clear cap room? I agree with your point that more cap room will be needed to retain Dream to play center. If the Rockets can unload Walt Williams by combining in a draft pick or two in the same fashion that Orlando did with Derek Strong and Corey Maggete, that would create the necessary salary slot to retain Olajuwon in addition to slotting 12.6 mil to Webber. I seriously doubt that Sacto would take Cato and Rogers as you point out (dont know if anyone would) and would probably much rather just take picks and maybe a Mo Taylor type instead of overpaid, underachievers like Cato. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
