bobrek: First, LSD is not addictive. Just a minor correction. The other drugs you mentioned are, just like alcohol, nicotine and caffeine are. The reason drugs wouldn't be laced is because they would go through the FDA, just like alcohol does. It would remain illegal to sell black market drugs, but there wouldn't be a market for those anyway. How many people do you know that buy moonshine on the corner? None, because they can buy it in a store. How many times have you bought a bottle of vodka at a liquor store and found out it was cut with paint thinner? And as for junkies robbing people for money for legal drugs, they already do that. They're alcohol junkies. The NRA argument is pure hokum. If you want to talk about guns let's do it in another thread. I'm game. Guns have one purpose only, which is to kill living creatures. I'd be more than happy if they were all banned. MadMax: It isn't fuzzy math. My point was that the anti-drug people use "drug related crime" statistics to bolster their argument that drugs incline people toward criminal behavior. THAT is fuzzy math, since the only criminal behavior most of them engage in is using the drugs. They use the stats to scare people into believing that pot makes you kill, rape and rob. Which is funny, since the legal drug alcohol is so much more likely to do that. Ninja: "I agree with MadMax though" is a very compelling argument. Kudos. By the way... This all brings up the basic reason though that the Republican party has sold out and the reason that the Libertarian party was formed. Republicans used to be pure libertarians -- they wanted government out of their lives except in the case of national defense. But they sold out to pick up the religious right. Now they want the government out of our pocketbooks, but in our bedrooms and our bodies. To be fair, the Democrats have sold out to pick up extra votes too and that's why the Green party was formed. The Greens and the Libertarians are the true Dem and Repub parties. They embrace pure ideologies, which each have good arguments. The major parties have lost the faith of the American people, because they are cynical and do not represent pure, sincere ideologies. Interesting fact here: both Libs and Greens support legalization, as does the medical community.
mr_gootan, I used the Bible because it very clearly states that " I have given you every herb bearing seed". Everything else you typed was a HUGE jump in conclusion. Witch's also use fires to cast a lot of spells are we to assume by this logic that fires are sinful? By the way, the verse you chose to prove your point is an example of what we were talking about in the Bible thread. Exodus 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, So jealousy is a sin, and God himself is jealous. Hmmmmm
Holey moley, gootan. You could say that about ANY Bible snippet. The argument was made for the benefit of anti-drug religious zealots, who are also, almost invariably religious hypocrites. While I'm on the topic, most zealots better hope like heck the Bible's wrong about Hell. If not, they're going there faster than the potheads. Increased social costs??? Do you have any idea what it costs to prosecute, imprison, house, feed and clothe all the non-violent drug offenders that are in US jails today? You could feed the damn world with that money alone. Never mind the fact that the government would have incredible increased revenues from the sin tax they'd place on legalized drugs. You know how much they take off the top of every pack of cigarettes? About a dollar goes to the manafacturer. And cigarettes are (or soon will be) $7.50 a pack in New York. On workforce productivity, I'm pretty sure coming to work stoned would still be frowned upon as is coming to work drunk. Keep grasping, though. You're bound to come up with something...
(sidenote to HtownHero: To use a source to verify your claim and then turn around and try to discredit said source is really weird. But whatever.) In each context, the use of that term is correct. God is worthy of all worship and is jealous when a creation of his gets worship. My verse relates to the fact that we want something someone else has, but we don't deserve to have it. One is justified, the other is not. If you want to discuss this some more, we could open a new topic for it. But I'll concede the fact that it is a huge jump. I must point out, though, that you made a jump just as outrageous. God put everything on this planet for our use. Yet if I use these things in such a way that ruins my relationship with God, it shows that method of use for that object is not what God had intended. Mr. Jones, I'm sure I'm not going to hell, are you? I have no idea what the social costs would be. Every point for "being cool" would have a point of contention until legalization is put into effect. I'm just going on personal experience with my friends' mj use, so my view is very limited as you may well imagine. Everyone of my friends who have toked more than once have gone on to stronger street drugs. But if you say that's not the norm for society, I can only believe you.
How in the world do you know what's right and wrong regarding drugs? Even drugs that are prescribed and sold over-the-counter are, in many instances, recalled and banned by the FDA after further studies. Ritalin, Prozac, many weight loss drugs, heart medicines, anti-depressants and other drugs are always under scrutiny and, again, are sometimes prohibited by the FDA. There are thousands of experimental drugs being studied by scientists all over the world, everyday. You already know about these and there effects, also? Do you already know what plant-based medicines are still to be discovered deep in the Amazon rain forest? Wow!!! Is caffeine o.k. by your standards? What about sugar? mushrooms??? Valium? alcohol? female hormone replacement drugs? Xanax? Interesting.
Batman posts a good argument for marajuana's legalization for personal use. I'm with him on this. And I really believe a lot of people who are against it's legalization will be dumbfounded when they realize who actually smokes or not, and if legalized, who will try and those who will try and continue the experience. It's a simple matter of taste (excuse the pun)...much like alcohol, coffee and cigs. Having said that. Is anybody going to talk about the hemp plant and it's possible applications in our society? I'm not up on it and only know simple examples, but I hear it's HUGE. Any help here? RR (hmmm...I wonder if one can juice the plant)
RocketRaccoon- http://www.saskhemp.com/hemp101/hemp101.htm The United States Government made farmers grow HEMP prior to the 1900's. In the 1940's they offered incentives for growing HEMP in the midwestern states.
Actually I would like to bring back prohibition. It's not because I'm against drinking - Just that I think it would be fun to hang out in speakeasies.
I'm as sure I'm not going to Hell as I am that I'm not going to Atlantis. I didn't say pot wasn't a 'gateway drug.' That line bores me. If it is, so are alcohol and cigarettes. So are candy cigarettes, rap music and rated R movies. Your 'every point for being cool' thing being offset by the illegality: are you talking about in God's eyes? As he tallies up the score to find out where to send you? Like the way Santa Claus decides who gets the lump of coal? If so, I guess the folks who ran the underground railroad were Hell suspects. Were the ones who harbored Jews in Nazi Germany in trouble with God? Or does he just observe American laws? Neither Jesus nor Yahweh ever said follow man's law, silly or wrong as it may be, or get bad points on my good boy/bad boy Hell tally. And if I misunderstood you, what in the world were you talking about? And where do I pick up and cash in my cool points?
Is pot legal? yes, in more places than the Netherlands. How long has mar1juana been legal in the United States? 161 years How long has mar1juana been illegal in the United States? 65 years Hey Diseased Monkey- is somebody posting under your moniker again?
I love that song but it confuses the hell out of me. It has a somber message wrapped in an intoxicating beat. By the time it's over I end up feeling buoyantly pessimistic.
Yeah, lots of his songs have that effect. That or righteous indignance. But Batman Jones would never be righteous or indignant. That Joe Jackson quote reminds me of the Beckett quote, "You're on Earth. There's no cure for that."
