Frontline opinion

How old is Theo?

Isn't he getting up there?



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COME BACK CHARLES!

 

SirCharlesFan,
Ratliff's only 27; his birthday was Monday. I see Rocketman's point, too. I'd rather spend our money on an all around small forward than a stud center (there isn't one available), or a stud power forward (unless he's Duncan-for him, you make exceptions).
But in all fairness, if we get Martin (I don't know why, but I prefer Fizer), then I think we can get by with our current line-up, although a good defensive small forward would work. These are just some stranger thoughts...

 

this is exactly what i said in a different post but no one wanted to respond to that one. i say we bring in danny fortson. he doesn't require the ball, but can come through to score when asked. his rebounding is about as tenacious as chuck's. his only downside is that he's a bit undersized and he has a temper. but i think he would be an awesome addition.

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"When the mind is thinking, it is talking to itself."

.... Plato

 

Man, Ratliff's making $7M a year, and I also can not envision a trade Larry Brown would make with us that would deliver him to our team. Though we discussed him a lot back in December as a possible trade option when Popeye brought his name up, I think he's a great fit in Philadelphia and will not end up in a Rockets uniform any time soon.

Fortson is a serious bad a$$ on the boards, practically without equal, but he is also undersized at 6'7 for a PF. Popular opinion is that it would not be wise to have two undersized PFs (Danny and Kenny). Also, I don't know a whole lot about Fortson's D, but I do know Pitino and several others point to the lack of interior D (opposing frontlines shot 52% against them for the season) as the main reason for the Celtics' troubles (I read it on NBAtalk or something), so I don't think Fortson is the defensive equivalent of a Dennis Rodman. It would be nice to get a serious rebounder at the PF position though, esp. if Cato's kept at C. Kenny is not that bad of a rebounder though. I kind of like Kurt Thomas as a FA option or sign and trade, but I'm not sure that many others do. He seems like a quality all around PF who will do the dirty work (defend and rebound) and score when called for (both with a jump shot and by posting up.

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i agree interior defense is important, but the thing is we have cato, and his lack of rebounding is exactly what we have to cover up. this is why we need a strong rebounder with intensity. fortson would fit this well, he might not be tall enough to block people's shots, but neither was chuck, but he still did okay on D, and fortson has a lot more intensity in that area. but mainly look at cato, he gets 4 blocks but only 3 boards in 36 min. we're okay on the interior defense. it's the boards that are killing us.

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"When the mind is thinking, it is talking to itself."

.... Plato

 

I think the PF position on this present Rockets team should be a defense first, offense second, type of role.

That is not to say, that any player that has poor offensive skills should be considered, because we need that offensive threat to make everything else work.

To me, Ganja Grant is the perfect fit for that PF role. His 14.5 best ppg, may be more of a reflection of the roles he was asked to play and the "type" of minutes he played, than a real indication of his offensive threat. The 1/2/3 on our present team and the guaranteed start would open a whole lot for him.

I disagree with my California friend a bit, because I could live easily with Grant's 10-12 ppg offense every night, if given a real defensive stopper that banged bodies and boards (12-15rbs) and blocked(3), ran the floor as easily as Brian does and generally created absolute havoc everytime someone came into his house.

{Although I am still hoping we are also shopping for:

1. a "go to" or more stable,consistent shooter than WizBang, at the three.

2. a center: as a project (like Kandiman or S.Samake to compliment Hakeem's final year, with Pig) or shoot the wad and get a premier move (like Duncan)}

 

Danny Fortson also fouls a lot. A LOT. He might be hard pressed to play a consistent 20 minutes a game.

I also feel our biggest need is a tough, rebounding 4/5. A Jayson Williams type, if he can come back. Kenny has shown flashes of brilliance, and could be a legit 4. I'd like to see what he does starting 80 games. Same with Walt -- his CONSISTENTLY stellar play the last month has earned him the starting 3 spot next year. Let's see what he can do, too.

Cato needs to get a clue, but unless we can miraculously bring in a Duncan or a Mourning, I don't see anyone displacing any of our starters. Any FA or rookie will have to mesh with Hakeem, Mobes, Bullard (?), Los, Moochie, Pig (?), and Mass (?) on the second team. That's what I see us adding -- a complementary player who can clean glass.

But then, that wouldn't make me go "whoa!" ...

 

Sailorman, maybe I wasn't clear or you miss-read my post. If B. Grant can return to old form I think he would be terrific. I was just pointing out he never has been an offense-first superstar PF--not even the caliber of OT or Horace Grant. I agree we need the low post defense first, than rebounding, and finally some offense (they can't be as inept as say Bo Outlaw). B. Grant seems to fit the bill great.

I would hope for 15 and 10 if B. Grant came here--and as he would be our #1 low-post option (still maybe third or 4th option for the team), I think he might be able to reach these figures. Still, if he could provide 13 & 9 plus fine post-defense, I would take it in a millisecond.

I really think it isn't that far fetched for Brian Grant to come here. He sure doesn't look that happy in Portland and this years lack of production could have lower his stock around the league. If he checked out with our team docs (after all they screened out Elliot, I think they would be conservative) I would create maybe a 5.5 mil per year slot by for him by including Drew (hopefully) or KT (maybe if we have to) + our #9 draft pick. If we need to get the Clips involved to do a 3-way with Mo Taylor going to Portland that is fine too.

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oakdogg,

I would like some more comments about Fortson's defense, too. But first off oakdogg, to figure out Boston's interior defensive woes, look no further than Walker. Fortson played 15 mins and missed almost 30 games.

As a general rule, I am of the belief that you can't have bad a$$ rebounding without always maintaining sound defensive positioning. So, you may not be able to stop a turnaround J, but clearly a rebounder like Fortson must not be letting the defender get between him and the basket very often...that tends to lower your rebounding opportunities. And at 6-7 1/2, 260, I doubt it is very easy to dislodge him from sound low block positioning, anymore than centers moved the 6-9 Antoine Carr.

Oh, and let's not forget his legendary long arms.

Also, someone clarify something for me: Fortson often plays reserve center at Boston, like he did at Denver when LaFrentz was injured last year, no? Or are *all* his minutes at the expense of benching Walker?

I can easily see Cato, KT and Fortson getting 30 minutes a piece in the following versatile rotation:

5. cato
4. KT

5. cato
4. fortson

5. fortson
4. KT

5. Cato/KT
3. Walt
3. SA
2. Mobes
1. Francis/Moochie

without changing the guard offensive system. The last set being the explosive one we loves to see, lately. Remember, we can hurt teams by playing small at key moments in the game. I have absolutely no problem with Fortson and KT on the same team together.


[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 20, 2000).]

 

Just found a quote from an espn chat with Fortson:

If he can frustrate Malone with physical defense and long arms, we have nothing to worry about.

[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 20, 2000).]

 

exactly!!!

Fortson would be a great addition to the team, and he's not too hard to get. he's a free agent at the end of the year (i think), so we can either do a sign and trade or if he isn't a free agent then we just trade for him. because he definitly isn't staying in boston after the way he was treated. then all we'll need is an athletic SF to complement walt. and we can get that from the draft. i think the rocks are set

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"When the mind is thinking, it is talking to itself."

.... Plato

 

heypartner:
Thanks for clearing that up for me on Fortson. Is it just me or does Fortson have a lot of similarities with Dennis Rodman (they don't look that similar, but as far as what they bring to the table and their height)? Maybe the Rockets can resurrect the Pistons formula for success after all. Also, do you think Fortson could be gotten for our $2.5 million exception or a sign and trade not involving our pick or any of the key members of our nucleus? That sounds pretty good to me.

Popeye:
Does the Kandi man show any more heart than Cato? I heard he doesn't show a lot of desire on the court. Do you think he'd be a better fit with us? I have also heard he doesn't run the floor well. I don't see many Clippeers games. Just curious.

Also, I'm interested as to what you think of Kurt Thomas. He seems like the same style of PF you all have been talking about. If Popeye says no go on him, then I'll finally stop bringing him up in PF threads.

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[This message has been edited by oakdogg (edited April 20, 2000).]

 

I don't mind Fortson, but I'd much prefer Brian Grant. Fortson, as it's been pointed out already, is not the ideal height for defensive purposes. I don't know anything about this Karl Malone thing, but if he can frustrate the Postal Boy, then great. I don't think that Fortson has a strong defensive reputation, though. I will say that the order of priorities when discussing a PF should be: rebounding, defense, offense. Offensively, we'll be fine with 12-15ppg. If we get saddled with a 7-10ppg player, I'd be pissed.

One final note, WE DON't WANT KURT THOMAS. I can't believe that someone would suggest him as a viable option. No Kurt Thomas. We need toughness, but we don't need a thug. Besides, he doesn't do anything well. He's just okay on defense (he's only 6'8" or 6'9") and doesn't block shots. He's not a strong rebounder, not explosive. He can't score, either. I have no idea how he lead the nation in scoring his senior year!

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actually kurt thomas is a pretty good scorer, it's just that he is getting up there in age, and he seems to like it in new york. if we got him it would be okay, but i don't think we should be going after him. same thing about grant. he's good, but he's getting up there in age, and looking towards the future fortson is the best option. he's about the same age as mobley, and he shouldn't be too expensive. right now he's making about 1.68mil a year. he would either go for our 2.5mil exception (if he's a free agent) or do a sign and trade for bryce and rogers or something. and if he's not a free agent, then he should be easily acquired from pitino.

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"When the mind is thinking, it is talking to itself."

.... Plato

 

Brian Grant is not a player that demands a lot of shots. He is more of a Dale Davis type (OK, his offense is a little better than Dale's, although he hasn't looked that good this year). If we could somehow get Grant I would hope for maybe 15 and 10 plus solid defense--exactly what I want from our PF. B. Grant has never scored more than 14.5 per game in his 6 years in the league--he has never been quite the force of say OT or H. Grant in their prime.

Ratliff should be, and probably is, a higher price commodity that Brian Grant. Our best hope is that Cato develops into that player. As pointed out in another thread, Cato's 3 year stats are very similar to Ratliff's 3 year stats.

The issue I have with a Forston, or Williamson or shorter stocky type forward, is they don't help much on defense and we have a similar player in KT. Forston does really pound the glass, which is good, but I am hoping for a guy that can bring just a little more to the table. Now B. Outlaw is probably the closest thing out there to Rodman defensively, but isn't the rebounder Rodman was and like Rodman his offense was extremely limited.

So I am looking at players that can bring 2 of the 3 following things in this order or importance: interior defense, rebounding, and offense. Brian Grant seems to fit the bill great if we can get him and he can return to form, Kurt Thomas or Croshere seems to fit the bill OK as well. Lewis or T. Thomas need some work on the defensive side, but they would be too long and talented not to consider.

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Kurt Thomas is only 27, which is only a couple of years older than Mobley. Kurt seems a little more well rounded on offense and is taller than the undersized Fortson, which are the only reasons I prefer Kurt. Fortson's a monster on the boards, so I wouldn't mind him either. Only question I have is what Fortson can do on offense, i.e. jumper or post-up moves, etc.

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