You dispute what? You didn't even address the the statement. If all you are saying is that if this team collapses, then most Rocket fans would turn on JVG like the wind changes....well, duh! But again, you missed the point of LTF's statement. LongTimeFan wasn't saying that if hall hell breaks loose and we fail to make the play-offs, that there wouldn't be a majority of fans that wanted him gone. He was saying that, TODAY, NOW, CURRENTLY, YOU are in the minority that want him GONE TODAY. You might not admit that. You might not willingly state it now. But in light of your past history of post and the assumptions of JVG...well, any reasonable person can see that you do want him gone, NOW (play-off success or not). But regarding LongTimeFan's original post. You are in the minority. That's what he was trying to say.
VesceySux: Rox-R-Us: Yo, V-Sux - Rain ManGundy has done NOTHING that you could use for ammunition to invalidate my point... FYI V-Sux, I've already pointed out my willingness to be proven wrong, and to eat crow if necessary!! However, if you can't tell legit criticism from "hating", then maybe your just a tetch too ready to defend the little Savant... JVG has NOT demonstrated an aptitude for coaching offense... the Rox recent success has been due to DEFENSIVE intensity and better chemistry rather than some smooth flowing Dallas/Phoenix-esque offensive plan born of Rain Man's genius !! I don't hate Rain ManGundy, but I don't think he's among the best of NBA coaches either. Also, I don't mind being quoted to make a point, but you were clearly reaching in order to further substantiate your point! Have a nice day
What I dispute is that JVG has any significant "fanbase" (for lack of a better word). Other than a handful of people like you, and a handful like me (and the 'FIRE NOW!' crowd), most simply don't care, and will blow with the wind on the guy. As to your other point, you are a mindreader now? I've said it so many times, it has worn a groove in. THERE IS NO REASON TO CHANGE COACHES MIDSEASON, SHORT OF A TOTAL COLLAPSE. I would also fire JVG if Phil Jackson wanted the job right now, but I cannot think of any other reason to pull that trigger. I freely admit I thought he was a bad hire. I freely admit that I find him an average NBA coach. I also set what I consider an "adequate" season for 2004-05. That has not changed since well before the season began.
my apologies R03...I hadnt gone thru this thread in a while since it seemed to be pretty much the same stuff page after page..
Handful? You better take a tally before you start claiming you know the number of supporters and haters. And please stop with the snide "fanbase" remark. There IS a fanbase and you know it. There was skeptisim at the start of the season...but that has subsided. Just admit that you don't like the term "fan" when it refers to JVG becaues you dislike th guy so much. So, just to point this out. JVG does have a fanbase. Sorry....I know you don't like it. And you have said "THERE IS NO REASON TO CHANGE COACHES MIDSEASON" only to save face. Not because you don't want him fired now. Jackson is your hammer that you use to justify your dislike for JVG. It's only a vindictive method you use to try and belittle JVG. You say you don't want JVG fired now, but always add UNLESS Jackson was hired...nice.... So subversive. So subtle. So convient. Stop acting like you are being reasonable. You are not! You like to cover your basses don't ya. First you say, would don't want JVG fired. But caveat that with unless we have a total collapse. My reply: DUH! You say, "I freely admit I thought he was a bad hire." You were wrong. You say, " I freely admit that I find him an average NBA coach." You were wrong again. You say, "I also set what I consider an "adequate" season for 2004-05." As have others. But adequate for you is a lot different that what others believe. Since pre-season, and early season records was a precursor to your assumption that it would last for the whole season. Again, more wishful assumptions. Stop playing like you are doing JVG a favor by waiting for the end of the season to give him a reprieve. You wont do that today, tomorrow or never. It just gives you more time to think of some other excuse to why your assumptions aren't coming true. You say, "That (your stance) has not changed since well before the season began." You don't say!? Really? Your "THERE IS NO REASON TO CHANGE COACHES MIDSEASON" is just an obvious front for your underlying vendetta. It's a front. The difference is that there are many former JVG-haters that have changed their opionion of him as he improves the team. Then there is you, that even though he has improved the team, you still want him fired -- but always claim that you are "willing" to give him to the end of the season before "support" him. Yeah, right. I don't believe that for a minute.
DavidS - Dude, I've been checking and posting in this thread for several days and it seems like you're investing a a WHOLE lot of energy in trying to get edc to acknowledge your point or to aquiesce in some other way... It's NOT GONNA HAPPEN. While I agree in priniciple with several of his OPINIONS... there are those (like edc) who did not want Rain ManGundy hired, and who are not yet convinced of his coaching credentials. As I've stated before, I and others who did not drink the JVG kool-ade are willing to be wrong, and will gladly admit same if and when there is a SOLID consensus... If we make it to a second round series in the playoffs, I will happily begin the "More Crow For Me" thread!!!! Until then, let's do what we've always done on the BBS: Share facts, opinions, fantasies (B-ball only please), memories, and have a healthy debate that does not devolve into meaningless "I'm right, you're wrong" arguments like those my son had in grade school!!
I really don't "know it." My take is that the majority opinion among people who consider themselves Rockets fans would be either "Who?" or "That bald guy on the billboards next to Yao Ming?" or maybe "The Rockets coach? What about him?" Either end of the spectrum is the minority. That is your problem.
Thank you. With the possible exception of Phil Jackson and his nine rings being a better coach than JVG (or RT, for that matter), this is all a matter of opinion.
Nah, JVG has another dozen losses, or a first round/early second round exit before Les needs to think about the next head coach As to "still being here," hadn't you heard? This thread is #4, and very, very close to being number three all-time for number of replies...
The thread has a high number of replies because many people here disagree with the thread title. Not because they *agree* with its premise (or you). You like to spin it the other way around, thinking...oh! This thread has a lot of replies, but you complety ignore the fact that most are disagreeing w/you!
That, too is your problem. I am telling the "truth," as much as opinion and subjective concepts can be considered "true." There is a not-so-subtle difference between not supporting the guy, and demanding his head on a pike. Sorry if it somehow doesn't jibe with your little worldview, but so be it. If I had a time machine, and could stop the hiring of Van Gundy, I'd probably do it. I don't, and can't, so the situation is what it is until at least May. P.S. the spelling is "liar"
The "either side" you talk about has shifted from one to the other. Why? Because JVG has improved the team. But you make it sound like the post count is purely leaning towards the anti-JVG side. Like if that type of thinking is soooo popular these days and the post count is supposed to "prove it." It does not. Post count is high because of the debates that have gone on in the last few months (because of this year high expectations). Not because you claim them for yourself, or your points, those of which have been disproved by others and by JVG's coaching.
Well, what I was trying to say was that you are not telling the whole truth since you were claiming it's "ok" for JVG to finish out the season (mainly because he'd doing good, and suggesting that he be fired now would be ludicrous; biding your time). But underlying your posts you always add that only a collapse would you *want* JVG fired. That's were that half-truth comes in. In reality, you want him fired now just because YOU hate his coaching. ***That's where the truth is!*** Not the end of the season, or pretending that only a colapse would cause you to *want* him fired, or whatever else you make up as the reason you want him gone....it's just a series of saving face, just to cover your tracks. The time machine comment is proof of that. You think it was a mistake, regardless of his record, improvements or performance. I mean, what else are you going to make up when JVG improves the offense even better, improves the reboudning, improves the shooting, improves the athleticism, improves the ppg, improves his winning record and one day wins the title? I can just hear you know...."He was rude...fire him!" By the way, I was quite aware of JVG mechanical coaching style way before he came here. And I was skeptical *before* he was hired if he would work out. But the more I thought about it, the more I belived that it COULD work. A nice blend of dicipline, structure, and x's and o's. Combined with extra ordinary athletic ablity (TMac; our only superduper star). Sooner or later they'd meet in the middle. As far as other coaches....? I would have liked Larry Brown. Jackson is great too. But we couldn't get them. Brown probably didn't want to come here because of Francis (another Iverson). Nevertheless, we have three key members that will make this team succeeed: The diciplined x's and o'x of JVG, the freak-of-nature ablity of TMac, and the soild play of Yao. From here on out, it's all about fine-tuning. And we *will* win a title w/out Brown or Jackson. In the mean time, I'm not going to spend my time hoping the Rockets to fail just because of some personal grudge. A title is why this team was assembled. And that's the ultimate measurement of any coach or player.
From my experience, anyone arguing with DavidS is an extremist who is either a YOF or someone from the opposite end of the spectrum. He's one of the most moderate guys on the board, if you're arguing with him, you're probably writing letters to Mel Gibson for the deleted scenes DVD of "Passion" or asking Michael Moore for his dinner menu.
No, that is not the case. It is like the president. If "the other guy" wins, you don't have to like it, but you have to put up with it for four years. Wishing he weren't in office is VERY DIFFERENT than hoping for impeachment, or hoping the economy goes to hell, or whatever. You also don't give up your right to criticize. In the case of an NBA head coach, it isn't four years, but it is definitely season-to-season, except in cases of collapse (see: Knicks). I don't know why you have so much trouble with a very simple concept.
