Being a pro-lifer, I think this is totally sickening! WASHINGTON (AP) - Capping a bitter 12-year battle, the government on Thursday approved use of the abortion pill RU-486, a major victory for abortion-rights advocates that could dramatically alter abortion in this country. The long-expected decision by the Food and Drug Administration allows Americans an early-abortion method already used in France, Britain, China and 10 other countries. The action is expected to make abortion in the United States more accessible and more private. Coming in the final weeks of the presidential campaign, the move also is sure to renew fierce political debate. Republican candidate George W. Bush, whose father's administration banned RU-486 imports in 1989, opposes abortion. Vice President Gore supports the pill option. The pill, known chemically as mifepristone and by the brand name Mifeprex, will be available to doctors within a month. Mifepristone, which blocks a hormone vital to sustaining pregnancy, only works during the first seven weeks of pregnancy, when an embryo is about one-fifth of an inch; that is earlier than surgical abortions often are offered. Two days after taking mifepristone, women take a second drug that causes cramping and bleeding as the embryo is expelled, much like a miscarriage. ``For those who choose to have an early termination of their pregnancy, this is a reasonable medical alternative,'' said FDA Commissioner Jane Henney, who approved mifepristone based on studies that found it 92 percent to 95 percent effective in causing abortion. Complications are rare; serious bleeding occurs in 1 percent of women. But the pill-caused abortion requires three doctor visits and, to ensure it is performed accurately, the FDA restricted its use to doctors with certain training and mandated that detailed patient-information brochures be given to every woman. Proponents hailed FDA's move. Although some doctors already use a cancer drug called methotrexate to cause abortion - legal although not formally FDA-approved - they said mifepristone will increase access to the nonsurgical method. ``At long last, science trumps anti-abortion politics and medical McCarthyism,'' said Eleanor Smeal of the Feminist Majority Foundation. Mifepristone may ``turn the tide against anti-choice intimidation,'' because doctors who don't offer surgical abortion can use the pill in private offices instead of protester-targeted clinics, added Planned Parenthood president Gloria Feldt. But anti-abortion groups, which fought mifepristone by threatening U.S. drug companies with boycotts, pledged to continue fighting. ``We will not tolerate the FDA's decision to approve the destruction of innocent human persons through chemical abortion,'' said Judie Brown of the American Life League. ``Never before has the FDA approved a drug intended to kill people,'' said Rep. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., who promised legislation calling for severe limits on which doctors could administer mifepristone. On the campaign trail, Bush called the FDA's decision ``wrong,'' saying ``I fear that making this abortion pill widespread will make abortions more and more common.'' His campaign said if elected, Bush wouldn't have the authority to overturn the FDA's decision, but he would order a probe of whether the agency's review was influenced by politics. Gore praised the pill's availability. ``Today's decision is not about politics, but the health and safety of American women and a woman's fundamental right to choose,'' he said. Health experts note abortions did not increase when RU-486 debuted in France in 1988, or later across Europe. The pill's journey to the United States began in 1994, when French manufacturer Roussel-Uclaf turned over U.S. rights to the drug to the nonprofit Population Council of New York. The council began clinical trials needed for FDA approval and created Danco Laboratories, a small company that will market mifepristone. The FDA in 1996 declared mifepristone a safe and effective early abortion method, but delayed full approval because Danco had problems satisfying manufacturing and other final requirements. President Clinton said the FDA's four-year investigation shows the decision was ``purely one of science and medicine.'' He said the FDA ``bent over backward to do a lot of serious inquiries. ... They took so long to try to make sure they were making a good decision.'' But the National Right to Life Committee condemned the FDA's unprecedented decision to let Danco keep secret the identity of the manufacturer, reportedly located in China, that actually makes the pills. ``The public has a right to know whether the abortion pill will be imported from the People's Republic of China, a nation that is a leading source of tainted drugs,'' NRLC said. FDA's Henney cited anti-abortion violence in her decision to keep the manufacturer secret, and to keep secret the names of FDA employees who scrutinized the drug. The FDA also increased security in some of its offices. ``The climate around the reproductive rights issue and personal safety issues are in our minds,'' she said. But FDA inspectors did travel to the mifepristone factory, and it passed all federal safety and quality rules, she said. On the Net: FDA: http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/mifepristone National Abortion Federation: http://www.earlyoptions.org National Right to Life Committee: http://www.nrlc.org ------------------ Too often, we lose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and pimp-slap the mother****** upside the head!
Being pro-choice, I'm happy that women, if they decide to abort a pregnancy, have an ever safer way to do that. ------------------ Cheerleaders are just dancers who've gone r****ded. visit www.swirve.com
As a supporter of choice, I also believe this is long overdue. Life beginning at conception is a religious belief that many of us simply do not have and it has no place in government. Planned Parenthood - www.plannedparenthood.org National Abortion Rights Action League - www.naral.org ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
I think "choice" is the religious belief here, not "life beginning at conception". "Choice" has to do with right and wrong, and without religion, there is no right and there is no wrong. Jeff, This "abortion pill" event has prompted me to start a thread enveloping all my arguments against abortion. I'll have to wait until tomorrow evening to post the whole thing (It's too late tonight). I am really looking forward to the "pro-abortion" reaction, because I feel it is a very solid argument, and gonna be hard to disagree with. But, I have a serious question for you, Jeff. If life does not begin at conception, then theoretically I can smash all the unborn Condor eggs I want, and no one can say a damn thing about it, because I didn't kill anything, right? And, don't tell me it wasn't the condor's choice for me to smash the eggs, because I'm not talking about "choice". I'm talking about the misconception about when "life" starts. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem. DREAMer's Rocket Page
I am not looking forward to any discussion on abortion that this BBS might foster, as it would be a pointless excercise in raising blood pressure and do nothing whatsoever towards solving anything. DREAMer, I appreciate that you feel you have a great many strong arguments against abortion and, ideed, I would have been greatly disappointed and shocked if I clicked on this topic and found that you hadn't replied...but I gotta go ahead and ask that you don't start an abortion topic on this forum. It won't change anything...certainly not my opinion and, I seriously doubt, Jeff's. You might think it would be an "interesting" discussion that will bring to light many intriguing points of view, but I have to disagree. It'll only piss people off. And it won't change a damned thing. I'm begging you, don't do it. ------------------ Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me...you.
First off, there CAN be right and wrong without religion. Many great philosophers and promoters of ethics were atheists and they had strong beliefs about right and wrong (Rimbaud, where are you? ). So, don't think for a moment that religion is where right and wrong begins and ends but that is a whole other story. What I said was that life beginning at conception was a belief held only by those who practice specific religious beliefs. If you are scientist who does not believe in God, for example, you see life as the ability of a child to live AND grow without the support of its mother outside the womb. Life beginning at conception means that the moment the egg is fertilized by the sperm it becomes life because it is endowed with a soul. That is a religious belief based on a specific Judeo-Christian philosophy. If you do not agree with that belief and maybe don't even believe in the existence of a soul in the first place, you aren't going to believe in life beginning at conception. Because we, as a society, do our best to not allow government to adopt specific religious beliefs as law, we should not adopt any policy where the only basis for it is faith in a particular religious belief. In the Sikh religion (an offshoot of Hinduism & Islam), they believe that the soul enters the fetus at 120 days after conception. Hindus believe that we are constantly re-born and that even an abortion is just another life on the path of that cycle. Taoists believe that there are no individual souls and that we are all a part of one greater singular soul that exists. You wouldn't want your government legislating based on beliefs like these, would you? As for the condor eggs, give me a break. I know you can come up with a better argument than that for pro-life beliefs. However... If you want to smash condor eggs, that's fine with me from the perspective of life beginning at conception, but I'm sure the game warden would want to have a chat with you considering condors are on the endangered species list. Also, while you're at it, you might want to watch it because condors can be pretty protective of their eggs and they are pretty damn big as well. But, if you insist, smash away. I never said I didn't eggs myself! However, if you want to kill the condor or its offspring once they are born, that is a whole different ballgame. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
I'm glad the pill was approved. Women deserve the right to choose whatever they wish when it comes to their own bodies. Like I've said before: if American men got pregnant, abortion (including RU486) would be legal, safe and readily available here in the land of the free! ------------------ I am the b*stard son of LHutz. Huh? Right!
RocketMan What's that saying? 77% of abortion foes are men, 100% of them will never be pregnant ------------------ I <i>am</i> the thread killer
Speaking of abortions: "I am the b*stard son of LHutz. Huh? Right!" ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." [This message has been edited by HOOP-T (edited September 29, 2000).]
DREAMer, I implore you not to start a new thread about abortion. We've been through this numerous times in the past two months. I'm not going to change your view, nor do I really want to. Your not going to change my view or any other "pro-choice" person out there. Another debate about this will just get ugly again. That's why I don't start threads anymore with the title "Why I think Republicans suck!" BTW, I take offense at "pro-abortion". I guarantee you that 99.9% of pro-choice would give anything for the subject to have never been brought up, i.e. no unwanted pregnancies. Pro-lifers love to make pro-choice advocates look like cold-hearted murderers. ------------------ Cheerleaders are just dancers who've gone r****ded. visit www.swirve.com
You got it! Pass that RU-486 over here. And somebody give Hutz a Bud Light to wash it down with! I want to be an "only-b*stard child". Or is that "b*stard-only child"? Damn, shouldn't have flunked that sociology class! ------------------ I am the b*stard son of LHutz. Huh? Right!
SpaceCity, Have you not been around the last few months? We've had the abortion debate at least three times that I can remember, and normally, those don't remain too civil (accidentally I might add). It's not like we haven't had the debate before. I respect and admire DREAMer's opinions on everything, including abortion, I hope he knows that. He's very passionate in what he believes, as am I. It's just that we've done it already, not too long ago. ------------------ Cheerleaders are just dancers who've gone r****ded. visit www.swirve.com
If you don't want to get all worked up about what might be said then don't read this post. If you are convinced that there is nothing that anyone can say to change your mind then simply stay away. Just because your beliefs cannot be swayed doesn't mean that everyone else needs to not talk about it. I think the Rockets are going to win the Championship and there is nothing you can say that will change my mind so please, I beg you, DO NOT bring up anything having to do with the Rockets. You are just going to get me alll worked up. All this fan talk does nothing to change how the Rockets play. Silly isn't it? People need to be able to talk about ALL issues. People need to argue. People need to relate to each other and to give their thoughts on why they feel a certain way. That's how we learn about each other. Hiding from an issue is not going to change anything. Besides, some people like to argue. Some people like to debate their ideas and feelings. Some people don't hate the other just because they disagree. The day that everyone on this Earth agrees on something is probably the day that the Earth ceases to exist. ------------------ RocketFuel is dead!
SpaceCity, Some people get tired of having the same argument over and over again. It doesn't necessarily mean they don't like to debate. 300, by the way. ------------------ Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me...you.
Who are we to tell someone they can't do this, they can't do that!! In the name of "protecting people" many INTRUDING laws have been passed by the govt. and I am sick and tired of it.. I am a man and I do not have to worry about dealing w/a pregnancy, I NEVER will have to worry about going through the pain, embarrasment it can cause, suffering, possible punishment and many other things women have to go through, so who am I to tell them they cannot make that choice?? if they want to be "killers" as some say then let them! they are the ones that are gonna have to live with that decision, is going to be in their conscience not yours.. so why do we want to stick our noses where it don't belong? in the name of what is right? who are we to say what is right or wrong? it all boils down to an OPINION. I do believe that getting pregnant is somewhat of a miracle, its a beautiful thing specially when that baby is brought into this world with both parents side by side anxiously waiting for that baby to be born.. Unfortunately that is not the case all the time and we have to face the consequences when a baby is brought up by a single parent. If the mother is at a position that for what ever reason she doesn't think she is capable of bringing that baby just yet and she makes the decision of not wanting it then why would we as a society tell her she can't have it aborted? Who are we to tell her she can't? tell me ! who are we? such decision requires alot of soul searching, it is an experience that I guarantee 99.9 percent of the women in this world would rather never experience, but it is a very personal choice and we should not have the right to interfere with it. Throughout history in the name of religion people have been killed, in the name of religion people have been saved, in the name of religion brothers have fought against their own brothers and fathers, in the name of religion countless lifes have been ruined and exposed to the cruelest kind of punishment anyone can receive and now people are using it as a way to make women feel guilty for making one of the hardest decisions they probably will make throughout their lives, SHAME ! that is all I can say! if they were so freaking religious they would not be doing that because (if you follow this beliefs) then you would know that we are not supposed to inflict punishment, shame or pain upon fellow man!! ------------------ Life moves pretty fast, If you don't stop and look once in a while you might miss it!! ... Ferris Bueler
There are a few people that I'd like to respond to in this thread: Rocketman95: "Being pro-choice, I'm happy that women, if they decide to abort a pregnancy, have an ever safer way to do that." R95, please explain what you mean by “pro-choice”. Heck, that sounds like a great thing to be. Sign me up. I like being able to choose things. I’m pro-choice too! I’m also anti-abortion. rascal: "Being a woman, all I can say is it's about damn time!" Being a man, all I can say is…what are your measurements? Yes, assuming all men would ask that is almost as bad as assuming all women are pro-abortion. Please, don't try to use the fact that you're a woman to support your stance on abortion. Jeff: "As a supporter of choice, I also believe this is long overdue." Jeff, as I previously mentioned, I’m also a supporter of choice. However, being against abortion, I think this is a terrible thing. It will only lead to more abortions. Why be responsible, when you've now got the "abortion pill"? "Life beginning at conception is a religious belief that many of us simply do not have and it has no place in government." How is it a religious belief when I am not religious and I believe it to be true? Jeff: "What I said was that life beginning at conception was a belief held only by those who practice specific religious beliefs." As I said earlier, this is false. I am positive that there are people out there who believe this who are not religious. Myself being one of them. Rocketman Tex: "I'm glad the pill was approved. Women deserve the right to choose whatever they wish when it comes to their own bodies." I assume you are for the legalization of drugs. You’d also have no problem with a woman 8 and a half months pregnant smoking crack everyday of her life. It’s her choice. Committing suicide should be legal as well. mc mark: "RocketMan What's that saying? 77% of abortion foes are men, 100% of them will never be pregnant" I’ll never be black either, does than mean I have no say on “issues that only affect blacks”? If it’s only an issue concerning women, why should men have to pay child support? Should only women be allowed to vote on whether abortion should be legal? Rocketman95: "DREAMer, I implore you not to start a new thread about abortion. We've been through this numerous times in the past two months. I'm not going to change your view, nor do I really want to. Your not going to change my view or any other "pro-choice" person out there. Another debate about this will just get ugly again. That's why I don't start threads anymore with the title 'Why I think Republicans suck!'" R95, that’s a good idea. I propose there be no more silly trade rumor threads. Nothing ever comes of it. We’ll just end up with a 100-post thread, and no trade. It’s just a waste of everyone’s time. "BTW, I take offense at 'pro-abortion'. I guarantee you that 99.9% of pro-choice would give anything for the subject to have never been brought up, i.e. no unwanted pregnancies. Pro-lifers love to make pro-choice advocates look like cold-hearted murderers." I take offense to “pro-choice”. I believe in choice, too, but I’m anti-abortion. And pro-abortioners like to make anti-abortioners look like people who don’t care about women.
Jesus Christ Freak. I'm sure you're smart enough to realize that pro-choice is the moniker that's been assigned to those who believe that each individual woman has a right to choose what she does to her body in regards to aborting a fetus that cannot live outside of her body. As for the asking DREAMer not to start a new thread, if you'd read my reply to someone else asking the same damn question you asked, then you probably could have left that out. It's been done at least three times in very recent memory, ad nauseum. It doesn't stay very civil, no matter how hard we try. I wonder why do it again. If DREAMer wants to, and he has, good for him. I just didn't think it was needed. As for your ridiculous assumption that those who are pro-choice would be OK if a pregnant woman do drugs when she is 8 1/2 months pregnant, nearly all of us believe that abortion does become murder when the fetus is viable outside of the woman's womb. BTW, I wasn't aware that committing suicide was illegal. Who in the hell would you prosecute? I guess you could throw those who attempt suicide in jail on attempted murder charges, but then you'd just encourage them to make sure they do the job right the first time. ------------------ Cheerleaders are just dancers who've gone r****ded. visit www.swirve.com [This message has been edited by Rocketman95 (edited September 30, 2000).]
Huh? Your logic is specious at best and frighteningly misogynous at worst. I was in no way attempting to imply that all women are pro-choice. I was simply pointing out the fact that I, as a woman, think the approval of this drug has been a long time coming. Perhaps, in doing so, I was also highlighting the fact that, due to my gender, this issue has a direct impact on my life and body unlike everyone else (hi guys!) responding to this thread. I think it's incredibly easy for anti-abortion men to sit in judgement on this issue -- they will never be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. Yes, I realize this is a cliched phrase, but I firmly believe that if the tables were turned, and men had children, we wouldn't be having this arguement. Freak, I understand your ethical dilemma with this issue. Believe me, I grapple with it too at times. But the cold reality is until we as a society can talk openly with our children about sex, until women receive equal pay for equal work, until men and women equally share the responsibilities of raising children and until safe inexpensive birth control is available to women, then we will never be able to get past this tired arguement. I hope, for all of us, this happens sooner rather than later. Oh, and by the way, they're 34-25-34 if you must know
Freak: Oh, Freak. What can I say? So, you don't have any religious beliefs and still believe in life at conception. Ok. Groovy. All I can say is that I was once anti-abortion as well. I was once a born-again Christian and my beliefs were my reason for being anti-abortion. If you feel differently, that is fine. However, if you survey those who are anti-abortion, you will certainly find that the vast majority of them are also religious to some degree. As Rocketman95 said, I know you are smart enough to know that pro-choice is simply a moniker used by those of us who believe in the right to safe and legal abortions for women so I won't even bother to explain. Your beliefs are what they are and I can't change them any more than you can change mine. I'll just say that until you have a uterus, you really won't ever know what dealing with an unwanted pregnancy means and how devastating the effects can be on a woman who alone must decide the destiny of herself and her pregnancy. If you believe it is wrong, that is your choice however, you are also fortunate that you never have to face the issue directly so it makes it a fairly easy one. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
