Fastbreaking and Rebound

jvg always tell steve to run the ball up, but he just walks. We didnt really have one least year either. And people are blaming JVG, it is a point guard who runs your offense, hence he should iniate the fast break like jkidd does.

 

OK 2 things:
1. You're talking about defensive rebounds. I'm all for the guards going after those, way ahead of running up court. Now I'm not in favor of guards going for offensive rebounds. Show me a good offensive rebounding team and I'll show you a team that gets beat on the fast break a lot.
2. The fast break thing. Pass the damn ball already. 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 and we end up taking a shot over the only defender or getting a offensive foul call. It's not just Francis, it's Mobley too. Pass to the trailer, and you might even get it back from him for a much easier shot.

 

Rebounding has very little to do with our lack of fast breaks. Who's going to lead the break? Do we have anybody under 40 years of age that can push the ball and make decent desicions on a fast break? Until we have somebody that can half way execute a 3 on2 or a 3 on 1 break, we're not going to run well.

We haven't been able to run a fast break for years, so it's kind of funny that people would blame Van Gundy for that. Since the day he arrived Van Gundy has been saying we need to run the ball, but some people act like he's trying to slow us down. I'm still confuses as to how simply asking a team to take good shots, pass better, play harder and play smarter is considered to be limiting Francis unfairly. Those things aren't mutally exclusive to being a good offensive team. The Kings do all of those things very well, they just don't play the defense on the other end.

Somebody want to explain to me what Van Gundy is doing to hurt Francis' game so much? Seems to me the bigger problem for Francis is the defensive rules. Now teams can pack it in and cut off his drives. That coupled with his horrendous shooting this year seem to be the majority of the problem. I'm not really sure how JVG is suppose to fix that short of lobbying the league to change the rules.

 

I've been saying it many times. Guard (defensive) rebounding does not necessarily hinder fastbreak. In fact, in the NBA, you can't just let the small players run upcourt for cherry picking as soon as the opponent starts shooting, like you do in those YMCA pickup games.

In the NBA, the guards have to help boxing out, and make sure the long rebounds are secured. (Short rebounds are usually picked up by the big men.) Otherwise, you are going to give up lots of second chances to your opponents.

The key to fastbreak is to push upcourt once the defensive rebound is secured. Francis seldom pushes. I think it has to do with his slow decision making process. He just can't make decisive move quickly. This, I think, is the same basic problem with his turnovers.

Another element for fastbreak is the outlet pass. Yao is capable of making good outlet passes. The problem with Yao, at least at this point, is that his rebounding is still not very strong. He often has to tip or juggle the ball before grabbing it. Even after he catches the ball, opposing players often try to knock it lose from him. So he has to spend a few more second just to make sure it's all clear. If Yao was a stronger rebounder, he'd be able to snatch the ball and look down court for the outlet pass in the same motion.

 

I dunno. Finishing on the fast break doesn't really seem to be one of our strong points. In fact, I'll go ahead and say we suck at it. I'd rather just emphasize the half court set and grind it out so at least that way we'll have more energy to play hard defense, which is the model of our team anyway. Fast breaking doesn't seem to benefit Yao at all either, so when we didn't fast break (which would be most of the time) we wont have the big guy be too winded to fight for position, which is vital on offense and defense.

Skillful fast breaking requires skillful passing.... ouch. There goes that idea.

 

its funny, the rox suck at fast breaking, but that's the kind of thing highschool teams practice all the time, getting out on the break having guys fill the lanes and keeping the ball moving, why can't a professional team do that?

 

Our well documented problems on running the break aside, I would say that JVG's deffense (collapsing the middle, make them shoot outside j's, doubling and rotating, getting a hand in a guys face, crash the boards hard) seems to be predicated on playing the man rather than the ball (or passing lanes) and doesn't seem to create a lot of steal-push up the court fast break opportunities.

 

I wish Houston would bring in Rick Barnes to give them a 2 week clinic in fast breaking. Texas runs a 3 on 2 break 38.5 times better than Houston runs a 3 on 1. I'd like to at least see if coaching has something to do w/it.

The difference is really remarkable. After watching the Horns run break after break to perfection, then watching the Rockets screw one after another up the very same day... I ask myself, "why do the college students do it so much better?"

 

Since you talk in riddles it's often hard for me to figure out what your point is.

It appears that you have some impression that there's some connection between defensive rebounding guards and being a fastbreak team. Beyond what aelliott has already mentiond (Francis won't run and finishes poorly), let's look at how many more defensive rebounds Francis has compared to the PG's for the Top 10 FB ppg teams....

Francis - 4.04
Andre Miller - 2.98
Steve Nash - 2.4
Jason Williams - 1.5 (29.5 mpg - would be 2.3 in 40 mpg)
Earl Watson - 1.6 (21 mpg - would be over 3.0 in 40 mpg)
Baron Davis - 3.2
Gilbert Arenas - 3.8
TJ Ford - 2.5
Eric Snow - 2.7
Leandro Barbosa - 1.1 (Joe Johnson = 3.7 DR/g)
Stephon Marbury (with Suns) - 2.9
Brent Barry - 3.1
Luke Ridnour - 0.9 (16 mpg - 2.3 in 40 mpg)


So you want me to believe that Francis spends so much time on the defensive boards that he can't initiate a break? When he's only about 1 to 1.5 DRebs per game better than the PG's of the best FB teams? You may believe it, but I surely don't.

BTW - What do Cato and Taylor have to with the break? You're expecting WC PF's to finish a fastbreak? Maybe they're just as busy grabbing DRebs as Francis is.

 

Connecting your thread starter and your latest comment....

We don't just not end breaks well...we're horrible. But I can't say that because it's bashing. Let's place the blame for for the lack of a good fastbreak on rebounding guards....ooooppps...the best fastbreak teams have PG's within 1.5 DRebs of our PG. So if I point that out...it's bashing.

So let's say the reason for a lack of a fastbreak is big men who can't throw an outlet pass. That must be it...a 7'5" guy with great half-court set passing ability can't throw an outlet pass. Or maybe our PF can't throw an outlet and turns the ball over...then again, Kelvin "Stone Hands" Cato has the same # of TO's/m as Brad Miller....

I know...we don't have athletic wing players...but there are a boatload of non-athletic wingmen on the leagues best FB teams...so it must be Jim Jackson...wait, he didn't slow the Kings down a lick last year....Hmmmm...

So the answer to your inquiry..."Should our guards just release?" is..... oooopppsss. I can't say it...it may be misconstrued for bashing...

 

Yao cannot rebound. Steve and Cat have to get inside to avoid offensive rebounds. If steve and Cat are inside they cannot get a true fastbrake started.

Yao Ming (13 points on 5-10 shooting, 4 boards, 0 blocks)

4 Boards for a 7'6 center is pathetic.

 

I have noticed the drop in our fast break points this year. I saw 2 points for one game in the brakecheck count, and couldn't believe it! I also see Steve hesitates on fast breaks and waits til everyone comes down the floor to set up, including the defense. In earlier years, he would try to do it all and get a foul or make the shot. I'm not sure if this is a good sign (hesitating) thinking team first, but I should would like to see him go all the way and throw it down a few times.