Here is a theory believed by some Christians. Earth was created about 6000 years ago by God, He made everything, man, plants animals, including dinosaurs in 7 days. The geologic column is believed to date Dinosaurs extinct 65 million years ago. The geologic column is debated by many to be false because it uses circular reasoning. When The great Flood came, It destroyed all living things except what was on the Ark of Noah. When they landed on the new earth, everything was different, The Dinosaurs could not adapt to the new surroundings, God removed them because they were too large for the new Earth. So - I guess maybe 2 of you here would actually acknowledge this as a credible theory.
Actually, The Universe being created in 7 days, does not necessarily equate to 7 - 24 hour days. Each day could have been a billion years or more. DaDakota
That's definitely possible, DaDa. God is not on a timetable, so there is no telling how long it took.
And Christianity doesn't? The only proof Christians can offer of creationism is that it is written in the Bible. So? I personally don't believe in the Bible as a historical record. The fact that Christians use the Bible as proof that what is written in the Bible is true, is the ultimate in circular reasoning.
The Bible is either the greatest fictional story of all time or It has to be true. Personally, Whether what happened in the Old Testament is true or not, I believe it is all an allegory to teach a spiritual message.
I agree that it teaches a spiritual message, as do all great spiritual texts. I just don't believe that it can be used as a historical document in order to disprove scientific findings.
I'm not really religious and try not to sound ignorant, but I can't see how Christianity and a belief in the Bible's/Old Testament's 6 day creation (including man) theory can be even considered in light of both scientific findings pointing to the contrary (such as the human record) and the existence of other religions and beliefs. When there are other religions out there that adamantly beleive, as an example, that the world is really just a gigantic turtle and we live on its back and that it will end every few thousand years and be reborn again (as was/is? the case for the Maya religion, if I remember correctly), how do you know that they're not right? Just because you, or the book, says so????
Believing in "some" level of evolution is a little difficult. When you get down to the specifics, it becomes an all or nothing concept. Where did a creator start off? With an animal that could have a soul. Maybe he started with a pig and everything evolved from there. Maybe he started with life that didn't have a soul like an amoeba or a worm and it evolved into life that could have a soul. Maybe he started with a chain of organic compounds that eventually evolved into a virus or bacteria. Once you get back this far, you would have to ask, why did a creator have to interfere with the universe to produce these minimal results, we can practically do this in a test tube already. None of these theories would make sense according to what we already know. I can understand "god created the universe and then let it go from there", or I can understand "god created the universe as we see it now". I can't understand why "god created the universe at a particular intermediate stage of development that happened on a timeline that fits the definition of a book written on Earth, and then it evolved naturally from there, while he continued to interfere with the universe to assure that it came out the way he wanted". Basically, I am arguing that you can't have BOTH. I also don't think that you can have NEITHER (unless you are waiting for another scientific theory to explain the origin of species). If you are arguing for both, are you actually arguing that "Evolution makes sense, but I am afraid of going to hell as is described in the Bible."
All mythological and religious texts have something about how the universe was created and functions. It is one of the biggest human concerns that transcends every culture. You can rest assured that was one of the main reasons they were written. So how can you discard one of the major parts of a belief system to suit your own needs? Why can't the belief system be partially evaluated based on this information, and vice versa?
The Creation This story can be found in the Prose Edda. Parts are also located in the Poetic Edda in Voluspá and Grímnismál. In the beginning there was no earth or heaven, no sand nor sea nor cooling waves. There was only Ginnungagap, a great void. In the north there was Nilfheim, and from Nilfheim's spring flowed eleven rivers, known as Elivagar. As the rivers flowed south, they cooled and hardened into ice. In the south, there was the world of Muspelheim, a firey world. The northern part of Ginnungagap became filled with the ice and hoar frost from the Elivagar. When that ice formed and was firm, a drizzling rain arose from the venomous rivers and poured over the ice where it cooled into rime, and one layer of ice formed on top of the other throughout Ginnungagap. The southern part of Ginnungagap was lit by the sparks and glowing embers which flew out of Muspelheim. Where the heat from the south met the coolness in the north the ice was thawed and it began to drip and by the might that sent the heat, life appeared in the drops of the running fluid and this fluid formed into the likeness of a man. He was given the name Ymir. As the frost continued to thaw another form was created. This form became a cow called Audhumbla. From her teats flowed four rivers of milk and it was upon this that Ymir was fed. While he fed, Ymir slept, and while he slept a male and female frost giant grew from his armpits and one leg fathered a six headed troll with the other leg. Audhumbla lived by licking the ice-blocks which were salty, and by the evening of the first day there appeared a man's hair where she licked. On the second day, a man's head appeared, and by the third day the whole man was freed from the ice. This man was called Buri. He had a son name Bor who married Bestla, who was the daughter of the giant Bolthurn. Bor and Bestla had three sons, Odhinn, Vili, and Ve. There was great strife between the offspring of Ymir and the children of Bor and Bestla. Odhinn led his brothers against Ymir and they killed him. Ever since that time there has been hatred and enemity between the gods and the giants. Odhinn and his brothers dragged Ymir's body into the void. His flesh became the earth, his blood the sea. His bones became the mountains, his hair the trees, and his teeth the stones. Odhinn and his brothers discovered maggots living in what had been Ymir's flesh. They turned these into the dwarves and dark elves and these beings reside in the depths of the earth, mining the ore and minerals beneath the mountains and hills. The world of the dwarves is known as Nidavellir and the world of the dark elves is called Svartalfheim. Odhinn and his brothers also discovered some fine creatures living in the soil formed from Ymir's flesh. They named these creatures light elves and placed them in the world known as Alfheim. As Ymir's blood flowed, it created a flood that killed all the giants, save one. Bergelmir escaped with his household and they made their escape in the first boat, a hollowed out tree-trunk. The sons of Bor then took Ymir's skull and fashioned from it the sky and set it over the earth. Under each corner they placed a dwarf and it is from the names of these dwarves that we get the directions, North, South, East and West. The sons of Bor then took the sparks and burning embers that were flying about and cast them into the midst of Ginnungagap to light the heavens and the earth. They gave stations to all the stars and planets. They then fashioned a world for the families of giants and this world is known as Jotunheim. Away from this land they fashioned a stronghold to surround the world, to defend it from the giants. This land was fashioned from Ymir's eyebrows, and it is called Midgard. They then took the brains of Ymir and cast them into the air and these became the storm-threatening clouds. One day while Odhinn and his brothers were walking along the sea shore they came upon two tree trunks. The gods saw great beauty in the trunks and set forth to bring them to life. Odhinn gave them soul, Vili gave motion and sense, and Ve gave being and blooming hue. These beings were the first humans and they were called Ask and Embla. Midgard was given to them to inhabit. Once the world had been created and the gods had placed the sun and moon in the sky they made night and day. Night is a beautiful giantess with a dark complexion and hair of midnight black. Night's first husband was a man called Naglifari. Their son is called Aud. Next, Night married Annar and their daughter is called Earth. Last she married Delling and their son was Day. Odhinn then took Night and Day and gave them horses and chariots to ride across the heavens. The sun and moon are guided across the heavens by the children of Mundilfari. They were so fair and beautiful that he called the son, Moon, and the daughter, Sun. The gods became angry at his arrogance and took the brother and sister and put them in the sky where they draw the sun and moon across the sky in chariots. They made Sun drive the horses which drew the chariot of the sun that the gods had made to light the worlds from a spark which had flown from Muspelheim. The horses which draw this chariot are called Arvak and Alsvidh. Moon is made to guide the chariot that draws the moon across the sky. This chariot is drawn by Aldsvider. Sun and Moon can never pause in their journey because they are constantly pursued by the wolves Skoll and Hati. Now that the earth was made and had been filled with all manner of beings the gods created a home for themselves. The gods then built for themselves a stronghold in the middle of the world and it is known as Asgard. They built a bridge to connect Asgard and Midgard, and this bridge is Bifrost. Asgard is sheltered by the great world tree, Yggdrasil, which touches upon all of the worlds. -------------------------- With all this info out there you have to go with creationism, right?
Doc -- I'm not quite sure I'm understanding you here. What part of what belief system am I discarding?
Well, in retrospect, I'm probably feeling overly argumentative tonight... religion does that to me... or maybe there was just something in my dinner. I should go ahead and say what I was thinking though, since I hate it when people don't support their statements. I just think that the Bible as a spirtual guide or text should be judged alongside it's value as a historical guide. To me it is all or none. Here is where I am getting myself into trouble (because I don't know very much about the origin of each book, etc). Since I can't believe that Noah brought 2 each of at least 2 million (probably upwards of 10 million actually) species of living things on a single boat, I am very skeptical of the content of the rest of the book. One other random question - not directed to you Mrs. JB: Did Noah bring 1 or 2 tapeworms with him?
Doc: I get what you are saying but I'm not sure it is all that logical. It would be like saying if you get one wrong answer on a test, you get them all wrong. Using your Noah example, it would be like saying that he couldn't have possibly taken two of every animal so he must not have even existed, so the flood never happened and the Bible must be a lie. Seems like a bit of a reach. I just think that if you scanned every verse, you might find something that is more opinion than fact in one place but another verse that is more truth than fairy tale. So, do you dismiss the truth simply because of the other problem(s) you found somewhere else? I dunno, maybe I'm reading what you said wrong and if I am, my apologies. I guess, for me, I don't need to believe ALL of what any religion teaches to find truth and meaning in it. They all have truth and meaning in one way or another. Plus, truth, in a spiritual sense, is very personal and subjective. I'm not sure we could define it for anyone other than ourselves.
DR, If you will reject the Bible for any errors, you don't need to look at something that seems unreasonable to you, just look at the blatant contradictions. I like to realize that the bible is how man interpreted God's word. Therefor, there are bound to be errors and inconsistancies. re: Can you have both evolution and creation IMO, the probability of all of the species on earth evolving without outside interference is minimal. This, to me, is evidence of a divine hand at work. Not to mention the fact that there are prolems in evolution that no one seems to want to try and have a go at. For example, how do you develope things like eyes. All of the genetic iterations that are going to be required to move from something without eyes, to something with eyes will have to happen among many members of a species, all the while providing no evolutionary advantage. So, I say that creation did occur, and evolution was the method that God used, if it turns out that evolution happened at all. I still have yet to see any credible evidence of any kingdom/phylum/class/order level evolution. The only things that I have heard of are cases lich the Galopogos Finches, which is only evolution on the species level.
