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Evolution/Creationism?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Achebe, Feb 11, 2003.

?

As far as I'm aware... the following occurred...

  1. Evolution occurred (with or without God).

    60 vote(s)
    69.0%
  2. Creation occurred.

    18 vote(s)
    20.7%
  3. I don't know. I live in a box. I want my beer.

    9 vote(s)
    10.3%
  1. LeGrouper

    LeGrouper Member

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    Do ya'll creationists really think that the fossils were planted by someone or what? Please explain, I try to have this conversation with my mother but she doesn't know much about fossils and all that edumafacation.
     
  2. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    MadMax, we agree!

    Huh??
     
  3. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Hitler killed Jews, I'm guessing him being Christian gave him part of his justification. I know his main deal was that he said Jews were undermining the German economy, but I'm sure them being Jewish didn't hurt his efforts.
     
  4. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    You mean, at least if you are trying to be quite insane. I know many, many medical professionals and medical researchers, and they care about, bottom line, the well being of their patients, present tense -- the ones that sit in an examining room and need help.

    I have no idea what you mean by "faith in evolution," but believing in evolution does not mean worshipping evolution in a way that makes you cold to the individual, in a way that guides you to think of a future uber-species of humans.

    I don't recognize the name you've dropped, but I disagree so strongly with your point that I can't say I care to make the book's aquaintance. Sorry. If there is some twisted logic that can arrive at the point you've made, it seems so cold and contrived that it would best be labeled Aristotlean.

    At any rate, the type of logic you've put forward works with the following analogy.

    "I know the world will be destroyed when the sun enters its red giant phase. Scientifically, I know that the atmosphere will be blasted away and that the earth's crust will be charred, making it inhabitable for humans to live here. THEREFORE, we should take no human endeavor seriously." That's nonsense, but no more nonsensical than "anyone who believes in evolution has to behave like a eugenicist if they want to be consistent." What that is is twisting and distorting one's own mind to reach a desired conclusion.

    Again, my last question remains unanswered. The health of the long-term gene pool appears where exactly in the hypocratic oath? (hint: I don't mean the version circulating in Nazi Germany circa 1938).
     
  5. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    us creationists are too worried about picking the tobaccer out of our teeth and eating mama's chicken 'n' dumplins to bother with all that book-learnin'

    jokes aside...i know there are some who believe that. i've never met anyone who believes that..but i know there are some who do..like Carl Everett, for one!
     
  6. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    I didn't mean to go overboard with my last two posts, my only point is that everything rooted in religion doesn't always turn out to benifit mankind. It was in specific response to the dangers of the Darwin Theory.
     
  7. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    you do know that hitler didn't carry out the holocaust in the name of religion, right?
     
  8. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Try reading Mein Kamph, pgabriel. It'll open your eyes. Hitler was the ultimate racist.
     
  9. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    The word "theory" as used by scientists is much different than the common definition:

    Common--"an unproved assumption"

    Scientific--"a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena "


    It would be interesting to see how many believe in the "literal translation" of the bible.
     
  10. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    Yep! :) I'm at the Coffee Garden usually every other day (as is John Amaechi... friggin' deadbeat basketball player :p).

    Incidentally, I reread my post about my own concerns with some of the hate mongering stuff that can emerge out of evolutionary theory... and suffice it to say that BBob was far more succint...

    Mrs Valdez, if you think that you'll give this topic its due... I'd suggest reading some of the popular stuff first (even though it's arguably simplistic). You can learn a lot in a really short time. Once you get some of the basic terminology down (locus/allele/etc.) you'll be able to make sense of a lot of the real literature. Maybe read some of the Dawkins stuff first...

    just keep in mind that he is trying to keep every person on the planet's attention. After that, maybe read some Jared Diamond.

    No matter what you read first, though, remember that a lot of these guys aren't well versed in everything they talk about... they try to make some conclusions before they're due (ie Diamond's skin pigmentation in Tasmania). Men seem to have this tendency to talk about everything in an armchair fashion... and bright people figure that they know enough to talk about everything else (my father in law is a chemical engineer and assumes that lamarck is spot on).
     
  11. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    I don't understand attacking a theory because it is "dangerous."

    So, we need to ignore scientific evidence if the apparent truth is dangerous? So we don't want to know that the Earth moves around the sun in a path that is governed by a non-linear coupling to the gravitational fields of the other planets and the sun, right? Because this means that a slight perturbation could send us careening out of orbit some day. That's true, to the best of our knowledge, and IT'S DANGEROUS.

    Back to the Ptolemaic, earth-centered universe. Immediately!
     
  12. LeGrouper

    LeGrouper Member

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    My mom actually believes that Noah was in the ark with the animals and Jona was in the whale, and etc...

    We have the funniest conversations we company comes over.

    I am religious, just not organized religion.
     
  13. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    I feel like this is an appropriate time to let you in on something...

    I actually created the world. It took like 10 minutes. I didn't really want humans but all the dinosaurs needed something to eat. Who knew humans would be poisonous to them?

    Anyhoo, originally all you humans were green and shaped like sports cars, but the beta model had problems with the trunks blowing up every time they got rear ended. As a result, procreation was nearly impossible.

    By the way, the universe is round, the chicken came last (eggs were easier), the sky is blue because I think it's a pretty color and the next time you are in space, take off your helmet. It is filled with helium and will make you sound like a Smurf.

    Oh, and when someone says, "God bless you," when you sneeze, I don't.

    Carry on.

    :)
     
  14. Mrs. Valdez

    Mrs. Valdez Member

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    Alright, you want an educated answer about the fossil evidence? I'd be happy to give you one. First, let's consider the fossil evidence. Since you are so cinvinced by all the evidence you've seen, I'm sure you've got a copy of some book somewhere on your bookshelf that reviews it. What's the title?
     
  15. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    I assume this was for me BBob---
    You're completely right BBob. I just don't want to be the person that tries to advance my career in evolutionary biology with some discovery that there are really heritable differences between populations.

    lol Jeff

    Mrs Valdez, I have an undergraduate degree in geology... and more recently an undergraduate degree in anthropology... but I don't get your question. The bones are all over the place, I don't think that the creationists dispute their existence. They just think that the devil made them to confuse us.
     
  16. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    this is a story told in a ton of different cultures, not just in the Bible. there are tons of stories about the Great Flood cutting across a range of cultures.

    and the last time i saw a report on it, there was some pretty good archaelogical evidence of an ark at Mount Arat with the same dimensions apportioned in the Bible.
     
  17. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    Max, it's argued on that talkorigins site that the ark material was a hoax (I don't know anything about this topic).

    Either way, even ~10 years ago in geology we were talking about a discovery of a collapse in a glacial dam that would have been tantamount to a flood of 'biblical proportions' (considering it came down the Tigres/Euphrates valley if memory serves).

    ie, imagine what happened when Lake Bonneville broke up near Logan and flooded into the Snake River...cross grained boulders larger than the room I'm in... simply unbelievable (quick somebody take the unbelieveable part of my quote and suggest that I don't believe in Lake Bonneville's regression).
     
  18. Mrs. Valdez

    Mrs. Valdez Member

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    Was this in response to the title of Dennet's book? Just so you know, he argues your point, you don't back off a theory because it is "dangerous" if the theory turns out to be true.
     
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    i haven't read about the ark thing in a while...but the flood stuff is pretty well documented in geological evidence?
     
  20. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Well, no. :p I think it's just interesting. I agree that some theories have dangerous consequences if they are true. They seriously do.

    If protons decay, according to the standard model of particle physics, then eventually all matter as we know it is going to come unhinged. That's seriously disturbing! But I want to be able to think it and teach it and discuss it. ... And, here's the clincher, I still want to be able to be spiritual while talking about such theories. Or still be spiritual while practicing medicine, etc. I just don't see a conflict there or what all the fuss is about. Why aren't people just as mad about astrophysics and such as they are about evolution, if what makes them mad is that the Bible's literal translation can't be taught as science in school? Does this make sense? Isn't the Big Bang theory as offensive as evolution, in that context?

    Darwin didn't cook something up to make Christian's mad. He tried to look at the world around him and wonder, scientifically, how we ended up with all these species. If only he had had the chance to talk to Jeff before writing that durned "Origin of the Species" book! :D
     
    #40 B-Bob, Feb 11, 2003
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2003

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