Evaluating Shane Battier 05/06 35.1mpg, 10.1ppg, 5.3rpg, 1.7apg, 1.1stl, 1.4blk fts: 147/208 (1.8/2.6 per game) = 70.7% 2pters: 238/456 (2.9/5.6 per game) = 52.2% 3pters: 65/165 (.8/2.0 per game) = 39.4% 3pt breakdown: Corners 54/118 = 45.8% Elbows 7/31 = 22.6% Straight 4/15 = 26.7% 06/07 through 10 games 36.3mpg, 9.0ppg, 3.3rpg, 2.7apg, 1.4stl, 0.4blk fts: 8/14 (.8/1.4 per game) = 57.1% 2pters: 17/29 (1.7/2.9 per game) = 58.6% 3pters: 16/44 (1.6/4.4 per game) = 36.4% 3pt breakdown: Corners 15/35 = 42.9% Elbows 0/7 = 0% Straight 1/2 = 50% 1st 5 games 10/23 = 43.5% 2nd 5 games 6/21 = 28.6% I've been satisfied with Battier's performance thus far. JVG has used him more on the perimeter than inside ever since the first game when Boozer manhandled all of our fowards (except for Chuck Hayes). So I don't mind that his blocks and rebounds are down, because he's not playing PF. He's taking charges, making good entry passes to Yao, and playing good ball overall. One concern I had going into the season was 3pt shooting. Battier has been one of the top 3pt shooters in the NBA in years past, especially from the corner, but he has never been a volume shooter. This year, I expected Battier to become a volume shooter, for it is a necessity for his role in this offense. And as expected, Battier is taking more than twice as many 3's as he did last year per game, and he 3pt shooting is okay so far. It hasn't been great. He started off fast, then has really struggled the last 5 games. His corner trey is efficient, but not as much as last year, and he hasn't hit anything from the elbows yet. Anyhow, everyone keeps talking about a 3rd scorer, and from what I've seen so far, Battier can be a 3rd scorer. In the Hornets game when nobody could hit, the Rockets ran plays for Battier in the corner. They've also gone to him in the post with decent success. I mean, when Yao and TMac are not in the game, Battier can be a go to guy. But most of the time, either Yao or T-Mac is in the game, and no one else is going to be a primary option. I mean, Yao takes 17.6 shots gets 9.3 freethrows, TMac takes 17.2 shots, gets 5.9 freethrows, and then you have a major drop down to Rafer at 9.8 shots (2.8 ft) and Battier a 7.3 (1.4 ft). So how many shots should a 3rd scorer get? This question is important to think about when Bonzi gets back too. In San Antonio, Duncan takes 15.8 shots (8 ft), Parker takes 15.6(5.8 ft), and Gino takes 10.8 shots (4.2 ft). I think Rafer takes so many shots in part because plays so many minutes per game (37.7), and also in part because in addition to taking 3's (5.8 per game), if the 3pter isn't open, Rafer will tend to drive for a floater, which is very inefficient. So here's my prescription to get more points for Battier (assuming he keeps up his hustle points): -Battier needs to shoot 3pters better (I don't know how, for he takes open treys, but give him time I hope, for his shooting is not up to what he's capable of), so just keep shooting 3's -If Yao and T-Mac are not the go to options, go to Battier in the post. He has a good move to the bucket, and good jump hook, and has a nice little runner too. This will be Bonzi's role when Bonzi is back. Do not run plays for Rafer, for sometimes Rafer takes over when Yao and Mac are out (damn, sometimes he takes over when Yao and TMac are in). Rafer has been great at nailing his open 3's (39.7%), but he's been terrible taking it the hole (33% shooting on layups) -Shoot freethrows better (I have no idea how), for Battier is a career 74.2% freethrow shooter and this year he is down to 57.1% So all in all, I'm happy with Battier. He's made good plays and not had many mistakes. I'm satisfied with his 3pt shooting, though it could be better, and he needs to get out of this slump. I'm not happy with his freethrow shooting. T-Mac can afford to take 14 instead of 17 shots per game. I love T-Mac's vision and decision-making, but he still takes 3 or 4 ill-advised shots a game because he's a star and he takes bad shots when when he's feeling hot. The Rockets can be okay without Bonzi for now, because Battier can be that 3rd scoring option in my opinion, but he's just not being used as one. Battier's 1 on 1 efficiency is pretty good and should get more 1 on 1 touches in my opinion (at least until Bonzi returns).
Thanks for the analysis. Shane has been as advertised but I disagree about him becoming a consistent 3rd scoring option. That just isn't him. He will never be a "volume" shooter. Some games when we go on droughts he can post up his man and get a couple of jump-hooks but that's about it. We need to give up on the fantasy of his scoring prowess. His forte is hustle, smarts and fundamental play.
Further comments on Battier's game: I realised that Battier is almost limited to just being a baseline player. He hits his baseline and corner shots fine, he has a good jump-hook move on the left block, and he has some nice unorthodox flip shots going across the lane. But he really can't do much offensively anywhere else on the court. I've seen him hit just about only one 3 from the wings so far. One thing I'll give him credit for, is that he knows his strengths and weaknesses, and doesn't try to do things he can't. He knows his 3-point shot is only money from the corners, and like the stats showed, he stayed there mainly. I think he can do much more too, and he should, given that the trade was a 2-for-1 deal. But JVG seems overly content in letting him roam and do his dirty work, instead of calling some plays for him from time to time.
I actually don't think Battier would be bad against PF if given proper help. No worse than Padgett, certainly. Problem is, Battier himself is probably the best one at giving the proper help that undersized PF Battier would need. Rockets also need perimeter defender Battier... maybe if Snyder gets better, Battier would see more PF time. It seems also that he's already gotten some PF time. http://www.82games.com/0607/06HOU7C.HTM
Actually, A_3PO, I think he can be a decent semi-volume shooter. Don't forget, he took nearly 1000 shots in his rookie season, with about 280 3s and averaged 14.4 a game. Granted, he shot only 42.9% from the field, but imo, that's good enough to be the 3rd option. This team has far greater talent than what he had in Memphis in his rookie season, so being the 3rd option, I think he'd get enough good looks off Tmac and Yao to convert at a higher clip than 42.9%. And what jumps out at me is that he also shot 37.3% from beyond the arc, while taking the most number of 3s he has ever taken in his career in that rookie season. I think it's quite clear that he can produce when his number is called. Of course, I'm not talking about producing like scoring machines, but as the 3rd option, I'm sure he'd be pretty decent. So I don't see why he can't be our 3rd offensive threat, especially behind 1+11.
When I was refering to volume shooting, I meant volume 3pt shooting. Battier only took 165 3's last year, this year Battier is on pace to shoot 360 treys. He's shooting a decent 3pt clip, but he definitely needs to improve. So I'm pleasantly surprised that Battier has proven that he can shoot many more 3's than he is used too, but that 36.4% clip is not good enough. From my stats, he's been slumping the last 5 games, so hopefully it will hike back up to 39% sometime soon. As for 2pt scoring. It's not that I'm hopeful or optimistic, but I am basing my opinions on Battier's past performance. While Battier is taking a bunch more 3's this year, he's taking a lot fewer 2pters. Last year, 57% of Battier's shots taken were jumpers, while this 78% of Battier's shots are jumpers. Battier has never been a 20pt per game man, but if the Rockets use Battier to his regular scoring ability, then Battier could logically be going 2.9/5.6 on 2pters per game. That would give him 5.8 ppg on 2 pointers, add that to 1.76 3pters per game (if he shoots 40% of 4.4 3pt attempts) and add to that 1.8ppg on freethrows. I know those are some big assumptions (Battier's ft % going up and shooting more ft's if he gets more 2pt 1-on-1 touches, Battier's 3pt % going up), but Battier can potentially average 12.9 points per game if he shoots to his normal standards and gets about 3 more post ups per game. And 12.9 (12.88) points on 10.0 shot attempts per game is a very good efficiency, and a proper mix of 2's, 3's, and freethrows or Battier in my opinion. So what I'm suggesting is not a drastic change. Just give him 3 more 1on1's per game and that should help him and the Rockets. Also, I think this adjustment could be only temporary if Bonzi Wells gets into the mix, but Bonzi is not in the mix now, and it would suit the Rockets to have a little more scoring distribution at an efficient pace, and Battier can produce that, for he has in the past. Now if you want 15 points per game, then Battier would need about 5 more touches 1 on 1 than he's getting now. I woulndn't mind taking 3 touches from TMac and Rafer and giving them to Battier, but 5 touches might be asking for too much, and there's the possibility of diminishing returns.
solid analysis. I agree that he should get a few more plays runs for him in the post--the jump hook (left or right-handed) has been as close to automatic as it gets for him. With this 3 pt shooting--on the plus side, his FT shooting is down also.. so that could indicate that he's either starting slow, generally slumping, or still getting used to the new ball (or something similar to those). Something that would indicate that both %ages will come up... as opposed to just saying that his 3 pt shooting is suffering due to the higher volume or due to him having to shoot more from the wings than before or something.
Battier needs to take more shots. I also think the 180 on Battier playing PF is a mistake. Even though Snyder 's shot isn't as good as Head's to me they seem like a better team with Kirk at the 2. Maybe JVG has a problem with T-Mac and Battier, not sure how they fit? JVG needs to bite the bullet and either move Battier to the 4 or T-Mac to the 1 to accommodate Kirk. Otherwise all those pre-season games were wasted.
thats probably because We had much higher expectations for Battier than for chucky everyone is guilty of that
I am a huge fan of Battier I think that he needs to definitely take more shots than alston because we know that his shots are all open "high percentage" shots I dont think Battier is playing enough off Yao and Tmac right now..he does a few pick and rolls and go to the baseline..but somehow I dont think he has famailarised himself with Tmac and Yao enough to fully utilize thier presence but when he figures that out..watch out but everytime I see an offensive foul due to Battier taking a charge...i cant help myself smiling... In terms of his rebounds...I think he is too smart a player not to realise that he needs to get as much rebounds as possible...maybe its part of JVG's game plan ?? i dont know... Without Battier on the court..i feel so much comfortable
I agree. As long as Chuckie is out, it should be Shane at the 4, Snyder at the 2, and whoever is hot at the 1. If we need D and run the PnR, VSpan. If we need D and shooting Head, if we need shooting and distribution, Rafer. We know that Juwan isn't the answer at the 4 and should not be playing and Padgett is questionable at best there. So, we need to see how it works with Snyder at the 2/3. Van Gundy's reason for moving Shane to the wing was our perimeter D was so bad. I wonder if that was because of Kirk or McGrady. Because Kirk has looked decent out there to me, in no ways as deficient as Howard at his position. So, really we need to see if Kirk is a player or not. We already know Howard is not.
If JVG has any sense, when Chuck Hayes returns Juwan is going to be pushed out of the rotation again. I think the team functions much better with Padgett at the four than Juwan, and that isn't saying a whole lot. And I agree with those saying that Battier should get more minutes at the four. Quick SGs with a fast trigger are too much for him to handle. I thought against Detroit he had his least impactful game, because he was devoting all his energy to stopping Rip Hamilton (to little success). I still think Yao-Battier-McGrady-Snyder-Alston can be a potent lineup. Van Gundy scrapped it way too early. He was using it all preseason, and then after one regular season game he stops?
because he realised Chucky is better I think and that because we dont have the luxury of a whale coming off the bench as the spark...we need someone to come off the bench who can attack the rim while tmac is resting...--> snyder
IMO, Snyder is not being used effectively. When I watch him, he seems to be a pretty good player. He has over a 2:1 assist/turnover ratio. He rebounds and defends pretty well. He gets to the free throw line. He makes good cuts to the basket. But his +/- is very poor. It doesn't really add up.
His +/- was fine last year in NO, and he's got some pretty good moments this season-- playing decent D and finishing around the basket playing off Yao and TMac. The season is young, so the +/- don't mean a whole lot yet generally-- one crappy game can mess up your +/- for the (young) season even if it is fine otherwise. Case in point, Yao +/- dropped from a +8 or so to the negative territory after one bad game in Detroit +/- wise-- specifically it dropped mostly because the Pistons went on a 17-1 run right when he entered these game with 8 minutes left in the 4th qtr. Though for most games, Yao's +/- is quite positive. I wouldn't judge Snyder on his +/- yet... He's a decent player... still has brain freezes ("I TOLD YOU NOT TO FOUL!!!") and still finding his 3 pt stroke (he did shoot 36% from the arc last year). In any case, I prefer Snyder/Batter at the 2/4 than Battier/Howard, especially if team speed is the issue there.
