I don’t know if you know this, but there are maybe 2 or 3 dominant big men in the NBA. Are you saying if a big man is not dominating inside, they all should be sent out to the perimeter?
And what is that skill set? You think Yao is the first big man to have a soft shooting touch? Rik Smits was alomost as tall and was probably a better outside shooter. And his interior game was actually more aggressive. Dude just couldn't stay healthy. And he's not the first foriegn player to come to the NBA. Yao had been playing basketball a hell of a lot longer than Dream had when he came to the NBA.
hzhaahahahhahah!!! you guys are insane! do yall remember the knicks/spurs finals? that was, like, the worst rated finals ever! pop and jvg are defensive gods who love that type of ****! the game was tough and both teams got frustrated and shot poorly. no big deal. win some lose some.
should trade Yao, boki and Pike instead of Yao and Moochie. That way we can build a more powerfully team and all..........
Yao's basketball experience prior to the NBA is equivalent to my playing basketball at the grade school playground. Dream at least received legitimate training in college basketball. All the other greats you want Yao to live up to had a much greater degree of development prior to entering into the NBA. Rik Smits is a very poor comparison. In his career year, his sixth, he averaged 18.5 points, 6.9 rebounds, and a whopping .7 blocks per game. His best year. Yao will beat that this year by a wide margin. You cannot intelligently deny the following: 1. Yao is an above average player and a very good player, particulary one in his 2nd year in the league. 2. Yao has not fulfilled his potential. Leave this alone. Francis is struggling. The blame and responsibility rests on his shoulders, not Yao's, just as Yao's sucky performance last night is entirely his fault. You need to dump the Francis or Yao thinking. But if you think one has to go, you've got the wrong one. Every GM in the league would take Yao over Francis.
Didn't bother to read all this garbage, but threads like these make me wonder if people actually want the Rox to win. It seems like they are content with going to the lottery every year as long as francis is leading the way.
Yao had played internation BB for years. Had played against current and future NBA all-stars. Dream had not. Yao had been taught the fundamentals of the game from an early age. Dream had not. Stop making excuses for the guy. He's soft. You make like him and he may be your favorite player, but you can never honestly call him, tough, gutsy, physical or aggressive. Any big man that can't be labled any of those things is soft. Period.
No one is saying he's going to be a freakin all-time great. You're the ONLY one saying anything like that about Yao... AGAIN...you are the ONLY one saying anything like that about Yao...should I repeat it? But if you got off steve's jock long enough you would see that he's not even close to being a max/franchise guard like Isaiah Thomas, hell he's not even CLOSE to being Jason Kidd, Baron Davis, or Starbury, yet he's getting paid like them and its making us sick...get it?!
“You can't drive when you have two big men already in the paint.” So you trade the center? Why don’t you just move him out of the when you want to give more room for the guards. It seems to work for the Lakers. “This team completely changed philosophies at the all star break last year.” No they didn’t. They started to change about the second month of the season. “So Yao actually led us to the lottery last year.” Kind of leaving out several other factors there that might explain the slide. “So when you guys are so certain Yao will develop into one of the best ever, what are you basing this on?” I never said he would be one of the best ever. I think he has the potential to be one of the top ten of the last ten years. But then again he might not. The fact is right now he is a very good center for us. He’s the foundation of the defense we’ve established and most nights he’s a steady rebounder and scorer. Those are facts. If he never improves beyond this he is already performing well enough for us to make the playoffs this year. We won’t when a championship with him playing that way, but he’d certainly help us make the playoffs. To make the championship we’d have to add better players around Yao, because we could not make a Yao trade that would improve us at center. There is not a player at any position that would give us more than what Yao gives us at center right now. “Because he's tall?” No, because he’s BIG and tall. There are teams that would kill for a player he size even if he couldn’t shoot a lick. Size on defense for a center is huge. Just look at Mark Eaton’s career. I think you underestimate the value of that. In Yao we actually have a big tall guy for defense that’s not a liability on the offensive end. “but at least I base my opinion on history and statistical fact - not emotion” My opinion is based on the fact that you couldn’t improve the team by trading Yao -not emotion. If the Rockets could improve by trading Yao, fine by me. Trade him. “If Yao were playing for Phoenix, everyone here would be calling him overrated and average. But because he plays for our team, he's one of the greatest ever. I don't think so.” Well the Yao only fans wouldn’t, but then they’d be Phoenix fans. I wouldn’t. I’d still think that Yao was a really solid young center with a lot of potential.
Threads like these are in reaction to anti francis threads and anti francis threads are in reaction to anti yao threads. It's a vicious cycle really. It's like what came first, the chicken or the egg?
You're comparing Yao to Hakeem? Yes compared to Hakeem Yao is soft...DUH. The point right NOW, is if Yao can give us the inside presence(you know that scoring and rebounding thing) that we haven't had in the years since Olajuwon left. He does. He's improving. 17/10 are the stats if you want numbers. We have to move the offense towards Yao because he shoots a better percentage than Steve(on his own shots not setups). Sounds simple doesn't it? I'm sure you'd like to see Steve and Cat back in the ISO game but its not going to happen...sorry.
The vast majority of Yao's background is playing finesse ball against people that are more than a foot shorter than him. That's fact. Except for infrequent international play, Yao never got pushed once in his basketball life prior to the NBA. Your attempts to gloss over this with a vague statement of international BB is weak and inaccurate. Yao had teachings about Bball fundamentals, that's true. But that's a far cry from getting an elbow in your back on a regular basis. Dream got exposed to the speed and physical play in college. Fact. Those aren't excuses. They are facts. I do like him, he is not my favorite player. I do think he is tough and gutsy. he is tough enough to come over here and compete at a brand new level instead of staying in China and just enjoy being a national icon for the rest of his life without having to do another thing. He is not physical enough or aggressive enough, but he has improved in that area from last year, and will continue to do so. I don't hear you refuting that. I challenged you to deny that yao is a very good player, particularly for a second year player. You can't. Rather, you just ramble on with factual inaccuracies and opinions. Nor have you denied that Francis has not improved in the areas that I cited. I generally don't get vitriolic with my posts, but I don't care for your tone towards me or others, so I'll note this - I'm debating you here because I'm bored, not because you are worth the time or effort. I'm just wondering what further garbage you are capable of. I am sure you will not disappoint me in that area. For the others reading this, sorry for temporarily sinking to this level. I'm just having a little fun.
Looks like someone's too lonely so he needs to spit out some crap so people notice him...Juugie ... 1. Everybody have bad games, Duncan was horrible too but he stepped up when needed and he also took more shots. 2. Just looking at #'s, Yao is doing just fine. 3. You have been nothing but a hater so far, so why talk? It's not like you know anything anyway. 4. Noone is making "excuses" for Yao. Look at guys like Dirk. It took him time. So did all the other straight-out-highschool guys. Do you really call that an excuse? Time? It's not about making excuses, it's about looking at other guys and speaking from experience. Besides Yao is doing much better than those other guys in their 2nd year. 5. Shaken Francis's confidence? Hurt his game? How about stop the ******* turnovers? As a guard, a big guy who demands attention gives you nothing but more room to operate. Yet you're still the same as 2-3 years ago...you're stupid period. 6. Yao dominate smaller guys but sux aganist taller players? Where do you get these stuff from? One game for you is like you've seen the player's whole future. You must be one of those people that judge people purely on apperance in life. Too much hate on this board.
Dream was more than half a foot shorter than him, playing on a contending Final Four team all through college, and the arguably the quickest center to play in the game. Dream wasn't soft, but I don't know anyone that called him a power player - he was finesse, and Yao is too. Comparing anyone to hall of famers is a poor way to defend your argument that they're average. If Yao is average, name 10 centers better than him today. That's a third of the league's starters. Good luck. Evan
lik ei notated above....what does all that have to do with calling people names in response to their posts. So what if he is making kneejerk reactionary trade suggestions? Be a man, and argue with him on the merits (or non-merits) of the post. btw...just incase you did not understand where I am coming from.....I DID NOT recommend trrading ANYONE.
Really. Fact? You mean like your JBC = Yao FACT? If you consider Yao a slightly above average center, I'd love to know who is an average center in the league and if you could name a few, that would be even better. It's funny that you consider many here blind, when you do not even realize the fact that Yao is steadily improving. Unless you consider Ming to be at his peak (which I hope that you do not) your argument are sure going to look silly and your trade proposals even moreso when Yao eventually hits his NBA apex. I'm not going to ask you for pateince Juugie as obviously you're sold on Yao as being a "slightly above average" center for the rest of his life (he's 23-24 years old) but I will ask the rest of you not to be sucked into this train of thought. Yao will be good, Yao will get better. IT IS HIS SECOND YEAR IN THE LEAGUE, technically, it is his 1.25 year in the league. Sheesh. Stuart
