Yes, it could just be packaging both picks or trading down. And I'm not saying that just to disagree. I actually have seriously thought through all of this. I've convinced myself, and I'm not really looking to convince others, but it sure is fun to talk about with you guys. I would consider this trade as much as I would consider this: <b>Lorenzen White, Brevin Knight and the #3 for Shareef.</b> Good or bad trade???? Now ask yourself if is it a good or bad trade considering Odom gets in trouble versus Shareef? Point is: Woods could easily end up being better than Odom (some say much better), and Pau will be equal to better than Shareef. Why throw in Kenny instead of just using the pick? Getting a center is one of the things I'd consider, yes! definitely. But there is no way in hell I'm packaging the #15 and Kenny for Caron Butler or Rashard Lewis. That is Caron Butler (who could prove to be another tweener) versus a proven commodity tweener and a center project at #15, or another SF. No way I'm trading Kenny in a package for Butler or Rashard. I'd scoff at that and just use my two picks. I agree. We just have a huge difference of opinion in what the "right situation" means. And that is based on my belief that you are treating Kenny as trade fodder. You are totally undervaluing him. Let me ask you this. What do you think he could pull next year in a trade if he keeps improving on various aspects of his game? We won't have a #1 next year. Wouldn't you like to have Kenny to trade next summer, and just take your picks this summer, or package them together or trade down or something.
I just disagree, I think a lot of teams are going to look to trade down in this draft. The smart thing would be to exploit that if we can. I think trading up has more potential payoff than trading down. And Woods could easily end up being not half the player Odom is. It's a gamble balancing risk and reward. I'm not entirely convinced Woods will be around by the time we even get our first draft pick. Why count your chickens before they're hatched? Woods could be better, but how long would it take for that eventuality to come about? Is trading Kenny worth saving 3 years? Who's to say in 3 years Odom might develop into an even better player? What if you could get next year's pick out of the clippers? Of all the ideas on the right situations, moving Kenny for a center or a specific player make the most sense. Lets say the rockets go with Dunleavy with their first pick. One that looks like it fills a good portion of the SF hole. What about making a move up in the draft, lets say with Washington. KT and our 15, for Haywood and their 11. With the 11, we'd pick up someone like Stoudemire, Marcus or Hilario. Haywood's a credible developing center, and either of the other 3 are signifigant talents, and with the exception of Marcus, I don't think will fall to the 15. And it's my belief you're slightly over estimating his value, most specifically next year's value. KT's a round peg in a square hole. He fit's in and is a good player. But he doesn't fulfill all the roles this team needs to fill. If trading KT gets us that square peg, then so be it. IF KT showed continuous improvement on his game over next season, I agree that he'd be valuable in trade next summer. But let me ask you this... What if he doesn't improve in any signifigant fasion? What if his numbers go down because he's playing fewer minutes? How much more or less trade value does he have then? I know we won't have a #1 next year so that makes this offseason more important in my mind. I'm just worried that the 15th pick is in the middle of no mans land. Too low for the real potential centers we'd want, and too high for the ones we'd pick.
OK, your time is up on this one. Numbers going down for playing less minutes shows nothing about improvement. Jaybird, I tried really hard to agree with you where I could. You just want to argue, and undervalue Kenny. oops...I was in the wrong thread about Big M
Really? You say he's going to show signifigant improvement over this season.... my question is what if he doesn't. You haven't answered that yet. "What if his numbers go down because he's playing fewer minutes..." I'm not talking numbers decreasing proportianally to time on the court. I take that as a given. My question still remains what if it goes down more than that proportinal ammount? I'm speaking more of FG% as well as playing Defense. The more time you play on the court the better rhythm you get into, on both defense and offense. Fewer minutes mean's less of a chance to build that rhtyhm. If KT's playing fewer minutes, will that affect the way he plays on both ends of the court? I'm not sure, but I'll admit it's a possibility. You've yet to admit even the possibility that KT could not improve his game signifigantly over this offseason. Heh, I'm not trying to argue but have a reasonable discussion. But if you refuse to acknowledge my possibilities while continue to build upon your own it does get tedious.
I do not consider it a possibility that Kenny gets worse, only that he might flatten out, and that is a long shot given is drastic improvement to date. I do consider it a possibility that MoT gets worse given the injury. Am I done now, Jaybird?
I'd guess you also didn't consider it a possibility that MoT would blow out his ACL before last season to? And I don't consider that KT's going to get us signifigantly more in value next year compared to this. So where does that leave us?
It leaves us with properly measuring Kenny's value. And I'm saying we will be in a better position next year to do that. He isn't going to drop in value; there is only UP for him. That said, I will trade him now. I just would never let YOU trade him.
Sorry, I'm just catching up on reading. This is exactly how I feel. You cannot place a glass ceiling on Kenny. It is a mistake. Mark these DrLudicrous words. Excuse me DrLudicrous if I smothered your first post with a running debate.
Heypartner, If we wait another season, KT's improvement won't be as fresh on everyone's mind. Also, don't you think KT will reach a point, which he's VERY close to, where everything will be unreachable because of his size? He'll reach a point where he'll have done everything possible to improve himself. But he can never grow. That's the problem.
I'm looking at three possibilities for consideration; First, a trade invloving KT this year, Second, a trade involving KT next year. The third possibility is every bit as reasonable and just as possible but aside from guessing the salary he'd get, there isn't much room for debate in that scenario. The major question being how does KT staying a year affect each scenario.... If he stay's a year and show's great improvement, it makes the third possibility the most likely. Why would we trade a player that's made such developments over 2 years? I'd assume this is the resolution you'd prefer HP. And contrary to what you might think, I don't see this as a bad thing If he stay's a year and only shows marginal improvment, it makes the second option more likely. Now this is where my concern comes into play. Compared to this current draft, and players on the blocks, how much better or worse will the market be if we're going to push for a trade then? Then there's option 1, which assumes we find some sort of deal this offseason. Now between options 1 and 2, I'd prefer 1, simply because I'd like the known over the unknown. I know that this is a very talent heavy draft, and I know a lot of teams are interested in KT. With 2, I know teams will still be interested in KT, but the rest is much more unsure, and I don't think his value will be signifigantly any more than it is now. If his value had increased a lot, I assume we'd try to keep him.
