Eddie Griffin?

you make some good points.

if eddie can learn how to dribble the ball, maybe even a crossover or a spin move, he can be a good sf.

i think i only saw him dribble the ball 4-5 times last year.

on defence he has great shot blocking ability. if he is guarding a sf like pierce, szczerbiak...etc, he will be stuck on the perimeter where his gift for blocking shots will be disabled.

put him near the basket and he will average 4 blocks a game in his prime. not to mension the rebounds.

 

I posted this in another thread about Griffin but it still applies...

I'd personally like to see him working on his low post game for the times he is slated to play the 4, but more than that I hope he is working on his ball handling for the all the time he is playing the 3 (which I think is where Rudy really wants him if Taylor is healthy) and parked on the perimeter waiting for a pass. I noticed early last year he never takes more than one dribble to reposition himself for a jumper. I honestly can't remember him ever taking more than one dribble to go past someone for an easy shot in the lane, dunk, lay-up etc. Now granted after his one dribble he was pretty consistent with his jumper, but add some slashing to the basket with his size and we have our 3 right here under our noses.

 

Because there were a number of other quotes about what position he should play, including at least one from Rudy T who said his future was at power forward. Also, when Rice and Williams went down and Rudy went with a 2 power forward starting line-up, he put Kenny Thomas in the small forward spot, not Eddie Griffin. Griffin might be able to shoot from the outside, but that doesn't mean he's got all the necessary skills for the position.

It also seems like a general trend (at least on the Rockets) that it is easier for a player to play out of position where he's undersized then where he is outrun. Rudy has less trouble putting PFs and even SFs in the center position (remember Bullard playing at the 5) than he'd have putting centers in PF or SF positions (like a Cato-Willis lineup). We saw the same thing with Langhi not working out at SG. There are a few exceptions that I think are extraordinary and forced by necessity: playing Mobley at PG in his rookie season and playing Kenny Thomas at SF this last season.

 

I think all the talk about Griffin playing the three is a waste of time. The man does not have the lateral quickness to be a legitimate 3 man. His position of prosperity will have to be the 4. I don't think he even beat a single power forward off the dribble to score in the lane. And seeing him on the perimeter trying to guard anyone was painful. Kevin Garnett, he is not. He is not the versatile, athletic freak that KG is.

His athleticism is more along the lines of Tim Duncan. And that is what his game reminds me of, minus the low post game. At the same age, Duncan had a much more refined low post game and was a better rebounder. Their low post defense pretty much modeled each others. Both struggled playing with bigger guys. Duncan still doesn't have the range that Griffin does. Both were subpar to average ballhandlers for their position. The only thing is, Duncan grew another two inches from his sophomore year to his rookie year. Eddie growing another two inches isn't exactly a given to take place.

In summary, I can't foresee EG playing the 3 anytime soon.

 

Gasol is playing mostly the 4 now.

As for your build comparison. Garnett and Odom are amazing passers and handlers. That is Eddie's weakness-he won't reach a Garnett or Odom like point forward capability, I'll be happy if he becomes average in that area.

As for Lewis-he's a much superior shooter to Griffin, and isn't 1/3 of the shotblocker. It's like comparing a 3 to a 4?

Shooting 3 pointers does not make you a 3 in Rudy's mind. Take a look at Kenny Thomas, starting at age 22, a 4 year college player with a lot more thickness than EG-
Rookie- 122 3PA, 26.2%, 72 games, 25 MPG-- 3.25 3PA per 48 minutes
2nd year- 92 3PA, 27.2%, 74 games, 24.6 MPG-- 2.43 3PA per 48 minutes
This year- 16 3PA, 0%, 72 games, 34.5 MPG-- 0.30 3PA per 48 minutes

For comparison, Here is EG's rookie season, a lot thinner than KT.
Rookie- 273 3PA, 33.0%, 73 games, 26 MPG-- 6.9 3PA per 48 minutes

Notice, he hit a higher percentage than KT. Considering Eddie was 3 years younger, and less developed as a rookie, assuming Eddie hits the weights, we can expect that to drop.

Rudy, CD, and Eddie have all had comments saying that Griffin is a 4.

 

i think that is the ony thing that matters. i dont care if we had reggie miller shooting 10 3pa per 48 minutes and attempting 400 a season, if rudy say's he is a 4 and he will play at the 4 spot...then guess what? he is a four.

 

also,

barkley was a 3 his whole career, until he came to houston.

rudy likes to take tweeners and make them into 4's for extra versatility in his line-up/rotation.

 

Anyone remember when Horry tried to bulk up and play PF? What a joke that was. Once he laid off the weights and went back to his natural position he has been an excellent role player for the Lakers.

So, based on other opinions here we can deduct He is a 3 who can't dribble, pass or defend at a level needed to be our SF and he is a 4 who is missing the post moves and bulk to pound on the inside with todays 4 in the league. I think given the dedication to his game he can be adequate, if not great, at either and/or both positions. Call me an optimist.

 

Curse you, Juan, for making me get that mental image again, after my sub-conscious has been working so hard to suppress it!

 

I said Eddie would be a 5 in the future, but I could be wrong about that,...However, I definitely think he can handle a dual forward role...this ability is very important!

Especially defending.

 

EG to me is not a sf. When I watched him play against players that take it at him or drive on him he doesn't have the movement to hold them or stop them. EG is good at guarding guys that shoot in the post not in the perimeter. Almost all of his blocks come from the low post.

Also I have never seen him drive on anyone or even dribble the ball more than 5ft. I have seen him post up and shoot many turn arounds in the summer league. I think the summer league allows EG to be more himself since there's no pressure and coaches just want to get a feel for what he likes to do and all I saw EG do is post up and shoot 5-10ft turnarounds(and make most of them) or shot 23ft shots(and make a few in a row or miss a few in a row). The only times I ever seen EG drive is on the fast break but never in a half court game(in fact he wouldn't bulgde even when his man was 10ft away and he was open to go in). He's just not a sf at all unless you can name me a sf that doesn't like to dribble more than 5ft (if that).

Tmo and EG are close to the same size but seeing them both play Tmo is more closer to KG and Odom skills than EG and Tmo ain't even close to either of them. I agree with Da Man that EG plays more like Duncan.

By the way Horry does play alot of PF for the Lakers(maybe about 50-70% of his time, they rotate Horry, Shaq and Walker at C and PF).

 

I searched the Chronicle archives, here's a few things-

Rudy quote 1: "But they were doing it earlier with (George) McCloud. It gives you that pick and roll with the four-man (power forward ), and a decision has to be made. You double it, it leaves the four-man open for a second. If a guy can make outside shots, it opens up the seams. It's something we try to do with Eddie Griffin with his range. We can stay bigger and get the same result."

Rudy quote 2: "I think he's just scratching the surface of what he's going to be able to do," said Tomjanovich . "As time goes on, he'll do more and more inside stuff. Somewhere down the line, I see him putting the ball on the floor more....I'm not saying he's going to be a Scottie Pippen or anything like that, but he is athletic and can do athletic things. Maybe more like a (Tim) Duncan, where Duncan gets it and makes a bigger guy have to move." (Comparison to a big guy)

Griffin quote 1: "I guess they are just trying to take advantage of my outside ability," Griffin said with as straight a face as he could muster before chuckling. "Strength . . . that's probably why I'm not getting much in the post. That's what I have to work on over the summer - getting stronger so I can go down low against these guys."

Griffin quote 2: I was looking forward to playing beside him [Mo Taylor] and behind him. He's a great player. I could have learned a lot from him. Now I look forward to playing behind Kenny Thomas. I can learn from him, too."Now, I feel like the Rockets will expect more from me. Our starting 4 is going to be out of the season. I'm happy to step in and do what I can do. It's going to be interesting. I'm looking forward to it."

Larry Smith quote 1: "He's gonna be OK," Rockets assistant coach Larry Smith said. "It's just a matter of getting used to back-to-the-basket type stuff. I think in years to come, as he works more and more on it, he's going to be an All-Star. Because he has the size, and he has the skills.

Larry Smith quote 2: "We're very happy with his progress, and he's really coming along at a pace we like. His progress in the future, I think, is going to be substantial. As he gets more confident playing down there and the more time and the more reps he gets down there, the better."

Dawson quote 1: "If you look at our team right now, we've got two centers, we still have two power forwards in Kenny Thomas and Eddie Griffin , and we have three 3s in Glen Rice, Walt Williams and Dan Langhi," Dawson said.

RMR interview by DarkHorse-DH: So are you gonna spend most your time at the 3 then?
Griffin: No. At the 4.

Full Interview

Satisfied yet?

 

He was a center in college. He has the the good stroke, but he doesn't really have the lateral quickness to play the 3 like someone else said. Not to mention he's your best shot blocker and rebounder, why would you want him out there. Aside from his Houston days, when Horry gained the 25 lbs he had his best fg% and rebounding yr at 7.5. The problem with Horry is even though he was 6'10, he couldn't take adv of other small forwards because his post game sucked then as it sux now. Guys like Elliot and Ceballos used to blow by Horry at will. I imgine Eddie could play the 3, but with the Marions,Lewis,Dirks,Peja's an Odom's roaming the west at the 3 spot , I don't think thats the best for him. Now if he had a low post game that could make tose guys pay then that would be great, but as of right now he doesn't.

I like the analogy someone used earlier about him not being a great athlete like Duncan. I beleive this is very much true. If Duncan withhis skill level was as atheletice as Rasheed,McDyess or any of those guys with his skill level, it wouldn't even be fair, but he's not. Duncan right now isn't even as athletic as Robinson at 30 yrs of age. Thats why when Shaq was guarding him he couldn't do anything. Shaq is bigger and quicker, most definitely stronger and just neutralized him in the 4th qts. That being said, if Eddie can develop a jump hook, along with drop steps and strength, it would mke his range on his shot even more valuable. I can still see him as a 4 man plain and simple.

 

I have no problem with him at the 3 or 4 but my question is this... If Rudy, CD, et. al want him to be our 4 of the future why did they sign Taylor to the long term big money contract? Oh forget that I asked this question, there is no understanding why they have signed some of the contracts they signed.

 

Some people were saying that he was being missused because he was shooting so many threes and not getting many points in the paint. However, he played almost exclusively at the 4 with some time spent at the 5 last year. He never needed to be moved to the 4 since he was already there.

 

I did a search in RealGM's Wiretap archives for 'Griffin" in the body. I found 2 things:

1. 7/30/01. Interview with Eddie Griffin. Griffin says he doesn't know what his role will be on the Rockets, but he expects to play a lot at the 4.

2. 10/4/01: Rockets Camp. RGM says Clutch says that Rudy said he saw EG playing power forward and center, not small forward.

I then found the second one here.

10/3/01: Clutch's Camp notes.
http://www.clutchcity.net/feature.cfm?FeatureID=143