crash...excellent. Especially this Can we all say Vince Carter's defense. Desert Scar: I appreciate all your info in this thread, too. Thx for your read on Butler. Despite everything crash said, picking Woods and trading him could land us multiple picks like New Jersey got from Eddie. A Woods for #9 (Tsika) and a pick to use next year might be better than Dunleavy at #5. It might not. Now if Dunleavy is a gifted passer and good ballhandler...all bets are off! I'd trade up to get him. There does indeed seem to be a pattern at Duke where you wait your turn to lead the team. Now can someone explain to me why NBAdraft.net has Chicago taking Dunleavy when they have Jalen Rose. If Dunleavy ends up as good as Rose with a better outside shot, you better trade up for him.
This is as false as it goes. Its understandable that Dunleavy will never be the athlete Mcgrady,Carter,or Kobe, but to say he can't train to get quicker,faster, or more explosive is false. If Dunleavy does any kind of track work with a personal track coach or trainer, I can guarantee you that he'll explode more. I know guys that dropped their 40yd time from 4.5 to 4.3 by doing varios leg strengthing exercises. If you get faster and quicker, your explosion is also better. Instead of going inside and having a hard time finishing or getting a step on a defender then lose it by the time he decides to jump, it will be too late. A player can become a better athlete.
You are wrong unless Duke U has improper stats. Last year he shot 37.3% beyond the arc, the year before 35.1%. His Ft%74% last year, 69% the year before. That is not the performance of a "great outside shooter" or even just a plain old "great shooter", and it doesn't compare with Battier. I agree his overall shooting % is good, but then you consider all the dunks and layups set up by the players around him--it is not overwheliming. Maybe he has the potential to be a great shooter, he certainly isn't yet. I am not saying he isn't or can't be a clutch performer. But he has provided little evidence he is. As I said his turney shooting and offensive production went down while his team was booted when other stars % went up. BTW- I don't question JW value, nor did I Battier. If Dunleavy was a Shane Battier I would be thrilled with having him a Rocket, even at a 6 or 7 pick. But he isn't the shooter (at least yet), isn't the defender, nor as of yet shown the leadership and fire of Battier. I just wonder if you saw Dunleavy try to play 1-1 defense on Wilcox, Prince or Jeffries. He never had to play quicker smaller players because Duhan or that other defensive SF could (Jones?), I wouldn't think it would be a pretty sight to see him try to guard someone like Butler or Dixon--let alone NBA swingmen. Compare this with Battier who was assigned to the toughest forward and who still performed outstanding on the offensive end. In sum, I am not saying MD will be a bust, but he will have plenty of major limitations in the NBA unless he gets a lot of strength. Secondly, of course they Rockets need smart player--Butler and Gooden are smart well rounded player. But they would also help the Rockets #1 concern, getting front court players who can ball on both sides of the court--especially adding quickness and strength to the defense. To end there are a lot more promising prospects in the top 7--both in general and for addressing the Rockets key needs.
That Duke site is really outdated. You are not including *this* year; he is a junior. You are posting his Freshmen and Sophmore year. You and crash are actually both wrong because you are relying on nbadraft's links. Crash is using a number that ended at the Feb 27th mark in the season. Look again guys. He was shooting 39.5% on Feb 25th before a few regular season games and the ACC tourny. He ended up at 38.0% for the regular season and ACC tourny--81 out of a whopping 213 taken in 32 games, somewhat close to 7 a game. http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/basketball/college/stats/pptsavgDUKE.htm This is 32 games played. I'm assuming he didn't miss a game. Duke was 29-3 before the NCAA Tourny. They had 3 more games to play. He went 7-20 in the tourny to end up at 37.8 for all games played his junior year. <a href="http://archive.sportserver.com/newsroom/sports/bkb/1995/col/col/team/DUKE9900stats.html">Complete Season Stats</a>
However, compare Dunleavy's career to Battier: Fresh 35.1% Soph 37.3% Jun 37.8% Battier Fresh only 24 attempted Soph 41.5% on 94 attempts Jun 44.4% on 178 attempt Sr 41.9% on a whopping 296 attempted So I think crash owes Desert Scar another look, Crash said: "Battier's F/G% was .470 as a senior and half of his shots were not 3's as Dunleavy's were." That is simply not true. Battier shot 296 3s out of 533 total representing 55.5% of his shots on goal. This means his 2pt FG% was 53.6%. http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/2001_draft/Players/battier.shtml <b>So the question is still on the table</b> Why do people call Dunleavy a better shooter than Battier?
So, in summary: <b>Fact 1: Dunleavy hit 50% of his F/Gs (over 60% if you take out the 3's) and Battier hit 47% of his F/Gs. </b> Fact 1 by crash is a myth. Dunleavy hit only 48.3% F/Gs, and it was not over 60% if you take out the 3s. It was right under 60% at 59.6% <b>Fact 2: Over half of Dunleavy's shots were from behind the arc.</b> This is true: it was 51.7%, but Battier shot 55.5%, and he shot more. Why does everyone say Dunleavy is a pure shooter and not Battier? Does he have a quicker release? What is the deal? Tell me.
He is much taller so he can get the shot off easier v NBA defenders. Dunleavy is a true 6'9'' while Battier is 6'5''. Battier look and plays more like a SG than SF (IMO). I would rather have Dunleavy and his size at the 3 v Battier. Also alot of Dunleavy's 3's were from NBA 3 range rather than college 3. Battier is a great shooter but because of his size, he struggles hitting 2ptrs in the NBA.
I think until the draft order is established, NBAdraft.net just ranks the players based upon how hot a commodity each is, irrespective of a particular team's needs.
This is crazy. Battier 6'5 are you smoking or what? Battier measured even at 6'8 plus he has long arms. I didn't see anyone in college puposely shoot from 23ft just to show they have range. Dunleavy shot most of his college 3's just like anyone else, riding close to the line. Obviously you didn't see battier play this yr because if not for his teammate, he probably would have been roy.
With my next to last day in Keyboarding class today, I sat down to read this thread and at the end of the 50 minute period, I still hadn't finsished. Anyways, here's a few thoughts after my reading: 1) Brian Boddicker was overrated in high school. In the state quarterfinals, his current teammate and roommate Jason Klotz made him his personal b****. Klotz finsished the night with 17 points on 8-11 shooting with 8 rebounds while Boddicker had 2-11 shooting for 10 points and 3 rebounds. 2) Dunleavy is worthy of about the 8th pick in the draft in my opinion. He won't ever average 20 ppg but he gives his all and should have a nice NBA career averaging 14 ppg or so. 3) You never have to worry about Dunleavy joining the likes of Mo T and Cato for a night out on the town. Odom clearly has more God given athletic talent than Dunleavy but MD certainly does more with the talent he has. 4) Odom+Mo T+Cato = A lot of smoke 5) This is a very long thread.
HeyP, This is from ESPN Insider (for what its worth). It indicates that scouts are not concerned with Dunleavy's release. Ford Mailbag: Why is everyone so high on Mike Dunleavy? by Chad Ford Thursday, May 16 Updated 10:08 AM EST Q: Can someone please explain to me what Mike Dunleavy has on Tayshaun Prince? I have watched both play a ton and to my layman eyes Prince seems to be similar but better. He has very similar shooting range but more versatility in his ability to score off the drive (and willingness to drive), he is an equally good rebounder and passer and a much better one-on-one defender and shot blocker. Also Prince did almost all of his scoring this year against double teams while Jason Williams made life a lot easier on Dunleavy . What am I missing? Is this a Duke bias? A son of a NBA star/coach bias? Or is there an aspect to this comparison I am off on? -- Ron Litton -- Chicago, IL FORD: I got this question several times and it isn't an easy one to answer. I asked several NBA scouts about the differences between Dunleavy and Prince and they didn't have a lot to say. Dunleavy is a better ball handler and outside shooter by a hair. Prince has a better low-post game by a hair. Both are too skinny to make a major impact in the NBA right away. Scouts did pick up a few things that seem to be impacting where they'll go in the draft. First, all of them mentioned Prince's shot release as a problem. He's got a very slow release that leads to a lot of blocked shots. Scouts thought he'd have a much harder time getting his shot off at the pro level than Dunleavey. That leads to their second point. Dunleavy has flourished at the small forward position in college, while Prince's production has dipped when he's moved from power forward to the three. If Prince can't get off his own shot, he's in trouble at the next level. The last point is harder to quantify. Every scout thought Dunleavy had certain "intangibles" and was better fundamentally than Prince. Whether that is because he plays at Duke or has an NBA coach for a father I don't know. But of the 10 scouts and league executives I talk to regularly about the draft, all of them thought Dunleavy was a top 5 pick and Prince was a late first-rounder at best.
I don't want to turn this into a black or white thing, but one of the reason i think people will not see Prince in the same eyes as dunleavy is because of stereotypes. If Prince was a super athlete, he would be much higher than Dunleavy, but since the perceived notion that he is a avg athlete with good fundementals, they claim that Dunleavy has more intangibles. I had the college package on dtv and had a chance to see both play a few times and to me there isn't really a difference. To further stretch that, what makes Dunleavy better than or go higher in the Jeffries? Jeffries is another fundemental "black " player that is not a great athlete, but he is very sound and very versitile player. I look at all 3 and pretty much put them in the same boat. None will be perrinial all stars unless they get stronger and a little quicker, but all can be very productive players in the nba. At least Jeffries and Prince carried their teams instead of being another wheel. I think Dunleavy is in the mold of Mike Miller of Orlando. A solid sound player, but never a star in the league.
The point of posting the mailbag wasn't to say who is the better player or even to speculate why Ford answered a question one way or another. The point was only to provide a sports source that answers HeyP's question. That is the only reason the article was posted. Its as simple as that! Does anyone else have a link that speaks to Dunleavy's shot release? You make a good point about Prince leading his team (scoring 41 in the NCAA tourney this year was impressive). However, IMO, the Rockets don't need a player to lead the team. The Rockets need someone to hit some outside shots and help us play a smarter brand of basketball (by improving the ball movement and the movement of the players without the ball to get some good open looks). Just my two cents worth.
leebigez - You easily and often equate Mike Miller and Dunleavy. You know enough about bball that I don't need to remind you that Miller was also a #5 pick and was ROY. Was it a mistake on Orlando''s part? Should they have drafted someone more athletic? Joe Johnson or Rodney White, perhaps?. With millions of dollars riding on a teams ability to evaluate talent, I just don't see comparisons between Dunleavy and Prince as a race issue. Especially when the Ford's article says it was 10 out 10.
Thanks for posting that Swami. Now if we can just get a comparison to Battier's release. Leebigez, I don't think it is a race issue. It is a name issure. Mike Dunleavy has a better sounding NBA name than Tayshun Prince. Tayshun sounds like Francis' new celebrity squeeze. btw: what does "if he was a super athlete, he'd go a lot higher than Dunleavy." mean???? What if Dunleavy was a super athlete, or is there some "perceived notion" that Dunleavy's "stereotype" could never be a "super athlete" to even use that idea on a hypothetical change of the facts, but you allow the hypothetical for Prince???
Thats true Gater, but that will go down as one of the weakest ROY of the yr. Martin got hurt as well as Jackson. Its all guess's, but had Jackson not got hurt, he would have won it. HP, thats my point. Most notions as ignorant as they are expect black players to be better athletes than white ones in any sport. I don't want to sound like Gary Sheffield or Brian Cox, but its partly mostly true. Look at Battier as a good example. This was the player of the yr, got better every yr in college, and led Duke to the championship yet the scouts questioned him because he was not as explosive of a leaper as Richardson,Jefferson, or even the juco player Brown. Although Memphis basically said screw you , we're taking the guy, the scouts were saying he's not that athletic, but is a polished,skilled player just like Duncan was. Not the most athletic, but the most skilled in all phases of basketball. when the nfl talks about linebackers, they talk about zach thomas as being heady and lewis as being athletic, where as how come his athleticism overshadow his headiness. For some reason, the black players are suppose to be much more athletic than white ones, but when you get one thats not much more athletic, but just as skillful, it's not good for him.
