Neither one of those players is asked to be the leader of their team, they are complimentary players. Dallas wins because of Nowitzki and Finley, the Bucks win because of Allen and Robinson. Nash and Cassell play important roles, but lets not overstate their importance. Besides, Sam Cassell still can't run a half-court offense that doesn't involve him shooting the ball. ------------------ This space currently being renovated. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Many keep mentioning that Marbury has to be the man/take 30 shots/Etc..., but imho he has just as good a supporting cast as Francis does. Gill, Jackson, Martin, Van Horn isn't a horrible supporting cast. But, I'm with HP on this one, at this point Marbury, at this stage in his career, is as good as or better than the Franchise. ------------------ Never Underestimate the Heart of a Champion
cool. Now maybe i can get SamCassell to stop covering your back...lol! I can hear SamCassell now...(e tu Poodle-4). hehe Watch it Puedlfor, when Crisco gets my back it makes me pretty slippery. Regarding your quote, I certainly hope Francis improves his ability to run a half-court offense that involves him shooting the ball. Until that happens, I'm sticking with multiple playmakers for this team, just like I would with Sam Cassell.
Gill was injured all year, and Martin was injured on and off for the whole season. He doesn't have as good a supporting cast, but neither does Francis when you compare his team to the Bucks, Mavs, Suns, and even the Sonics. I'm not a fan of comparing players to each other. Also,IMO,Marbury and Francis aren't alike aside from their athleticism. ------------------
Lol. Et tu Poodle-4 indeed. I show nothing but love, and this is what I get? Robinson, BTW, hardly carries his team. He is soft and has been coming up small all through the playoffs. heyP you are right that the Bucks have multiple playmakers. Ray Allen is a great passer as well as a great shooter, and he is excellent on the break. Sam does not have to carry the burden of being the only guy capable of setting up that offense. Oh, and there are plenty of great players who "can't run a half-court offense that doesn't involve them shooting the ball." Steve Francis doesn't seem like a P1S2 type guard, and neither does Gary Payton. Those guys are pretty good. ------------------ Bingbong was set up, led to an untimely death in the prime of his life for no other reason than pure malice. Things like that do not go unavenged. Sometimes it spills out onto the field of play.
Speaking of Fran I don't know if you saw it in the paper but he called Sam Cassell "E.T." on the front page. I think it was in last week's paper. ------------------ President of the Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford,Larry Hughes, and Charles Woodson fan club.
But neither Payton nor Francis are asked to be P1S2-type point guards, their teams ask them to shoot the ball, because neither one is surrounded with the offensive talent Cassell is. While we don't know how Francis would react in that situation, I suspect that he would be better than Cassell if only because he's shown a far greater propensity to pass the ball than Sam I Am ever did. Payton on the other hand has been in this situation(W/Kemp and Detlef), and spent a large portion of his career(including his most succesful years) being primarily a pass-first PG, whose resposibility was more on defense than offense, and it hasn't been until recently that he's been asked to bear the burden of leading a team. ------------------ This space currently being renovated. We apologize for the inconvenience.
point...counter-point oh oh, Two of the most sound bball debaters on the board are pointing figures at each other. SamCassell knows his man, and Puedlfor is fresh out of the NBA Dish Bucks-bashing. I'm not taking sides on this one. Let me slip away while covered by crisco.
Yeah Lil Francis, not to get off topic, but Fran and his boys are pretty good a bashing Rocket players -- though he definitely leads the charge. ------------------
*cough*bull*****cough* GP has been a scoring PG for a long time. On arguably the best Sonics team, the one with Schrempf and Kemp that went to the Finals, Payton was a primary scorer and averaged about 20 PPG. Here's a stat comparison: Payton 95/96: 1276 shots (15.8 per game), 608 assists (7.5 per game). Cassell 00/01: 1132 shots (14.9 per game), 580 assists (7.6 per game). I'm not saying that Cassell is as good now as Payton was back then. But to say that GP or Steve (who is really the definition of a combo guard) are P1 guards or would ever function as such is, frankly, ludicrous. ------------------ Bingbong was set up, led to an untimely death in the prime of his life for no other reason than pure malice. Things like that do not go unavenged. Sometimes it spills out onto the field of play.
When the Sonics went to the Finals, it was because of Shawn Kemp, not Gary Payton. Gary Payton's role on that team was primarily as a defensive guru, the fact that he could score 19ppg was gravy (especialy since 19ppg didn't mean as much then as it does now). Payton spent most of his years as a defensive player first, and an offensive player second. And on offense he was asked to play second fiddle to Kemp. I think Payton would easily be able to function as a P1/defensive stud in Cassell's situation - and I'll be proven right next year after he gets traded to Milwaukee. As for Francis, I only said he would be better than Cassell in the role of a P1S2-type guard because he looks to pass more than Cassell ever did. ------------------ This space currently being renovated. We apologize for the inconvenience.
That's as good a place as any to end the discussion, I guess. We'll see next year when/if the Bucks trade for Payton. IMHO that if Milwaukee does make that deal, they will be worse off than they are now. They will gain a volatile star with only a couple of years left and losing whoever they have to trade to make that deal work - Sam I Am and Tim Thomas? And Gary's not going to give Karl 15 and 12, either. Why would he work to set up the Big Dog only so he can brick an easy 8 footer to lose the game? GP will be GP, which means playing great D, talking the trash, getting into 1-on-1 battles with his man, and scoring 18 to 23 while dishing 7 or 8 dimes a night. ------------------ Bingbong was set up, led to an untimely death in the prime of his life for no other reason than pure malice. Things like that do not go unavenged. Sometimes it spills out onto the field of play.
Steve is just as talented as Marbury, but doesn't have the same scoring mentality. I think Steve should have been on an All-NBA team because of his team's success, but they are a wash-talent wise. ------------------ The Protrolls.com message boards! Protrolls.com! And his ghost can be heard as you pass by that billabong: "All I did was steal a bloody sheep!"
The more I think about it.., the more it befuddles me why Francis-Marbury comparisons have not been demonstrated more. I think the two are closely related in style. ------------------ I eat nutria now..courtesy of mc mark!!!
I always thought Stephon was better compared to Iverson with his me first mentality. Marbury seems to be much more concerned wth his personal stats than team wins. I think more than anything the move from the T-Wolves and some of his mothers remarks a few years ago did a lot of damage to his reputation. While he is probably one of the most tallented point guards in the league his selfish, me first reputation has kept him out of many of the point guard debates on this board and around the league. IMO. ------------------
I agree with crash5179, except he does dish like a mad man, and shoots 44-45% now. Don't make him sound like Iverson/Stackhouse. DieHard... If it is true that most people compare Stevie to only Western Conferense, why are we constantly saying he is a top 3 PG in the NBA, like Marbury does not exist. There is something to say about a player with Marbury's stats and 3 yrs more experience than Francis at the same age learning their lessons about winning, and finally getting a player's coach to settle them down. His potential is only about learning to use his team, like Kobe and Iverson are learning. Francis's potential is about learning to play PG better. Which one is harder: learning to use your team better, or learning to play your position better? I say, when we discuss Francis winning awards, I personally cannot ignore the potential of Marbury to be a winner one day. He is still very young. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited June 01, 2001).]
Marbury has more talent than Francis, imo. Stephon shoots a lot, but hell, who else on that team can score? I wish Francis could create his shot like Marbury can(which is why Mobes usually takes the clutch shots). Get a few players around Marbury, and he could take that team to the playoffs. Put Francis on Marbury's team and they would have done no better, imo. ------------------ snap crackle pop
