giddyup: I'm glad we mostly agree on something! The only thing I won't go so far on is that the guy they are busting is "an outlaw" and so they have more latitude. This doesn't cover, for example, peaceful protesters that just piss off a cop because they won't move. I can tell you that police officers HATE this kind of publicity. One officer told me that, if there are any cops that cross the line, they have to go. Period. It's bad for publicity AND it makes the jobs of other police officers much harder. When you have that kind of reputation, it makes the criminals much more nervous and much more dangerous. Most police officers believe that excessive violence used in situations that don't absolutley require it creates far more problems than it solves. But, I do think that cops get painted with a VERY broad brush and that isn't fair to them or to the rest of us. These are mostly good men and women who risk their lives for us. They no more want to be associated with bad cops than the rest of us.
... because <b>rockss</b> indicated that this 16 YO kid got his butt kicked. He didn't really. Rodney King did but he was on his feet that night and he wasn't exactly innocent. Reginald Denny suffered lifelong injuries. He is the real victim among these three. He did nothing except be in the wrong place at the wrong time. He is kind of forgotten and should be the last forgotten among these three. <b>Jeff</b>: I know the "outlaw" thing is very unwieldy but I like it in principle. Cops who would clobber peaceful protestors lke they would this 16 YO kid are out of control. In situations like this, or Rodney King, there is a significant aggravating factor which I think deserves respect and consideration. <b>Bad cops need to go</b> but not every cop who wails on a suspect is a bad cop. It is tough to tell the difference from a snippet of video.
First of all, lets get this race thing out of the way. Please find the post where I "threw racism all over" the place. Guy asked if the victim was white, I informed him that he was African-American. Is that "throwing racism all over it"? People like you are why we have these brutality issues. You see 'Cop, perp, punch' think "well, criminal got what he deserved". Now on to the subject at hand. Why don't you try answering me a question. Yes or no, is it OK for police officers to strike a person they have in custody. Don't cloud the issues with any bull**** scenarios of little girls getting raped just answer the question. If your answer is no than there is no defense for the actions of these officers, simple as that. If the answer is yes, then maybe you should become a police officer. It seems you'll fit right in.
Nothing happened with me and the Dallas police. The Plano (where I live) police had steadfastly refused to arrest or press charges against a neighbor of mine who was threatening me (which is assault by threat), keying my car (which is vandalism) and physically assaulting me (which is a crime) no matter how much proof I brought them (independent witnesses, etc). They simply were not interested in enforcing the law in any shape or form. Not to mention that it takes hours to get any response to a 911 call, if they show up at all. On the plus side, their refusal to bother with their jobs means that speeding is not all that dangerous (in terms of getting tickets) in Plano. I've certainly never been pulled over for speeding in Plano (though you do have to watch out on the George Bush Turnpike as the DPS sometimes patrol there). The Dallas police bother me because they have a history of arresting people who are minding their own business for something called "Failure to ID". The problem is that there's no law that says it's illegal to refuse to show the police ID (and as a matter of fact, one has the Constitutional right to remain silent). The city attorneys have told the police that it's illegal for the police to arrest people for Failure to ID, but they keep doing it anyway. In essense, it's a handy way to handle folks who make the police mad without otherwise breaking any law. Interestingly, the Prosecutor's office brags about the number of Failure to ID convictions they've obtained (remember, there is nothing in the law that says Failure to ID is even illegal). What they do is they get the accused to plea out, even resorting to hiring the accused a new lawyer without his consent (or even telling the accused) to plea out the case in the instances where the accused wants to fight the charge (see: the Donato Garcia case. He was arrested for sitting in his car. He hired a lawyer and set out to contest the charge in court. When the prosecutor's office found out he was going to contest the charge, they went behind his back and hired him a new lawyer and told that new lawyer to plead out the case.) And more recently, it has come out that a huge number of drug arrests in Dallas over the past few years were phony. Instead of drugs, the police were arresting people for possession of pool chalk. As more about the case has come out, it certainly appears that a police informant was setting other people up in order to get cash payments from the police. For those and many other reasons, I'm not too enamored of the police and would never depend on them to enforce our laws to protect me. I know there probably have to be many good officers who take their jobs seriously, and I've met some who were certainly pleasant and nice. I've got no problem with them enforcing traffic laws against me (though again, I've never been pulled over in Plano or Dallas) and I can't remember the officers who have pulled me over in the past being anything but professional and courteous (My father was once arrested for telling his nurse on a cellphone that he'd be at the hospital to help perform the emergency surgery he was rushing to the hospital to perform "as soon as the dumb@ss cop writes him a ticket". That seemed to be a little over the line to me, and I would hope that if my anesthesiologist was rushing to the hospital to put me out before surgery that the officer wouldn't bother to write him a ticket or at least would consider the gravity of the situation before arresting the doctor on a BS charge that won't end up holding up once challenged. But maybe that's just me). It's just that the times that I have needed the police to do their jobs, they've just refused. Add that to the corrupt practices in the city next door that have been heavily publicized and I find myself not trusting the police, in general, to follow or enforce the law.
Well, no. In this country we have this thing called the presumption of innocence. Technically, these people are not outlaws and not guilty of anything until convicted in a court of law. Sometimes the police are wrong. Take this case, say this kid is never charged with any crime. Does he then get a free shot to beat up the police officers? Or a free pass to commit one crime? The thing about situations such as this is that it makes it harder to get convictions against people who actually do commit crimes. Even if this kid did lunge at the officers, there's no way they could charge him with that anymore because of the behavior of the officers once the kid was in custody. And things like this have a future effect. Every time something like this happens, it becomes harder and harder to believe what the police say. In situations where a jury is asked to take the word of a police officer, they may well be less inclined to do so simply because they've seen instances where other officers were less-than-truthful or operating outside the bounds of what their jobs should be.
gettinbranded -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just read an article about the LA gang cop they based Denzel Washington's character on in Training Day. Those guys were capable of anything (the undercover detectives) they were basically a gang with badges. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Newspaper? Link? I read it in an old Maxim Nov. 2000- It goes into the Rampart CRASH anti gang unit and Rafael Perez he is a crooked mofo. I've seen it a couple of times in different magazines -- the life these guys lived was insane-completely consumed with their power.
I just heard on the radio that the video of this that they are showing on TV and the internet was cut between the time the kid was slammed on the car, and the time the officer slugs him in the face. If this is true, maybe there were events in between the time the kid was put on the car and the time in which the guy punched the kid. I don't condone slugging the kid in the face while he was cuffed, but there could be more complexities to this. Hopefully all the facts will unfold, and action will be taken against the wrong-doers. The kid is in "Special Education" classes supposedly. Again sparking questions in my mind. Does the kid have a learning disability, is he a trouble maker, does he just not care about school, or does he have a mental disability? There was apparently a scuffle that took place prior to the tape rolling, witnesses said, and the officer had a cut on his head and ear as a result. This is odd. I think I am inclined to agree with Jeff, et al, and say this cop must have been pissed off, and the testosterone level got a bit too high. Ego...revenge. Seems like he lost his cool.
I thought it was obvious the tape had been edited, probably for reasons of time. The officers aren't in the same positions and the zoom itself was not shown. You'd think that if there was anything worth seeing in that time period, we'd see it. But who knows. Certainly, though, we're not seeing the whole tape. Does it matter? How does his status change what happened? Yes. But who started the scuffle? The officers say the kid lunged at him. He and his father say different. And for that, he should be brought up on charges of assault and battery and, if convicted, fired. I've been pissed off, too, but I don't get a free pass to break the law just because I'm pissed.
Here's another question I have. Why did they need six police officers to give someone a ticket for driving with a suspended license?
1. You are probably right about the tape. But who knows? 2. I didn't say it mattered. It seemed there was an overwhelming flow of sympathy for the kid, and more condemnation against this officer because the picture was painted to look like the kid was mentally disabled. That may not be the case. 3. I have no idea who started the scuffle, and I am sure there will be a constant conflict of opinions in that regard up until the case is settled or solved. 4. Sure, he should be brought up on charges.
Well, I have sympathy for the kid regardless of whether he's mentally disabled or not. I don't think his mental status is relevant to the case at all. But that's my personal opinion. But thanks for clarifying your point for me.
Of course I've seen it. My point was to contrast the injuries suffered by Denny versus those of RK or this 16 YO kid. There is no comparison. As I recall-- haven't seen him for awhile -- Denny suffered lifelong disabling injuries. Have you seen the video of him getting whomped by that gang of rioters? Rodney King was still giving interviews when Reginald Denny was in ICU.
Yes, I've seen it, and it was no doubt horrible. I just don't understand the point in bringing it up. Are you saying that the thugs who beat up Denny are simply stronger than the cops in these two situations?
Artist: The Coup Album: Kill My Landlord Song: I Know You [Boots] E, look man look [E-Roc] Yeah wassup man It's that cop man, the one that sent my potna to the hospital Hey pull over, come on [E] Coup let's with this hamhock mother****er, there we go Hey pig, yeah, remember me? Verse One: Boots I know you mother****er, know where you live You're the cop that knocked in my partner Greg Wiggins' ribs And it wasn't in a trip cause he's not a dealer or a pimp But now he walks with a permanent limp And pig you make my gut crimp cause my whole family got knocked Walcy Hawkins and her son's up in double-rock And it don't stop to the funky beat Till my people get together and kick you pigs off the street I grit my teeth why can't I be like Rodney with a camcorder? Seems we need one every time you get a court order Or pull me over in order to check identification I'm in the back of your car with a bruise or laceration You're in the hood and it's one more disaster We know you're here to protect and serve the master Next time you roll through push the gas a little faster I'll turn your blue suit purple, b*stard Cause Chorus x2 I know you mother****er (Everywhere I turn) I know you mother****er (Everywhere I turn) I know you mother****er (Everywhere I turn I'm assuming the position) Verse Two: E-Roc I know you mother****er, footprints in my door On my back, on my head, through my house and once more You called my mother a hoe, you threw my brother in a headlock You did this to about six thousands on the block Say you try to stop the rock so it makes me perspire Hmm...but you work with a supplier So I inquire what's your role in my elimination? Ain't got a choir so it sure ain't one of salvation But if I sung you a song it'd be of damnation Cause all they do is let me sing in this damn nation Hey hey hey, hey hey hey, how many kids have you killed today? Pig, now I realize our relation Your occupation is to keep me in occupation How many brothers have you left in a cast? How many graves have you made in the past? Useless! Not my task to even ask But you'd better cease before I put a cap in your ass Cause I know you Chorus x2 (Now let me tell ya'll this little little story This little piggy once came to Oaktown See, cause this little piggy had a gun This little piggy's gun was smoking Cause this little piggy shot my son This little piggy went wee wee wee all the way to hell! Cause we stomped a mudhole in his ass, ha ha ha Verse Three: Boots I know you mother****er, my face prints in your knuckles Hit my head back to the rear and I can hear my knees buckle And you chuckle...as the blow blurred my vision You make a game trying to tame me for colonialism The stars and bars are all you need to make a perfect prison No chains or fences here so you can make me think I've risen I'm given rations on the first and fifteenth Just so I won't be out organizing in the street And so I'm beaten in the court with charges trumped, see My eyes is swollen and my nose looks like Humpty's But I'm not laughing cause I'll take a bath in this one The judge is looking at me like he wants to have me hung I never swung, I got the dung kicked out my ass Like O.P.D. was using me for Beat The ****** class (Step one, put the handcuffs on Step two, say something like "****** you'll never learn" Step three, throw 'em on the ground Step four, kick 'em of course) But there's an error in your reign of terror and the end is near We ain't non-violent no more so get your riot gear Stand in fear and guard your rear as we gather round And **** you up so much, they'll have to **** you down Assuming the position that you'll have to wear a bullet-proof vest On your vest, I suggest you change your address Cause we know you (x2) We know you mother****er (Everywhere I turn) We know you mother****er (Everywhere I turn) We know you mother****er (Everywhere I turn I'm assuming the position) Nuff Said!! Rocket River
No. I am contrasting the <b>differing level of outrage</b> over the three incidents. I know that RK was pummeled by cops but that was after leading them on a high-speed police chase while high on PCP, I believe. I believe that he even went after officers in the beginning. All we see on the video is the conclusion of the scuffle. I don't remember why they were chasing him. Was he doing nothing or was he already speeding or driving recklessly? I don't know. What was Reginald Denny doing? Probably finishing a bag of McDonald's fries as he made his way through L.A. The pull him out of his rig and assault him with a bat and building bricks as I recall. I'm not sure what the 16 YO kid was doing to start this fracas. No one seems to be talking about that-- at least here. I know that the cops have a higher degree of responsibility... BUT higher than that of rioters NOT TO BEAT THE CR@P out of some guy just driving his truck? I'm not for giving the cops a blank check to keep peace in any way they see fit, but I do think under stressful conditions things are going to occasionally get out of hand. Once in awhile those actions by the police are heinous, but I think it is unrealistic for us to expect cops to keep their survival instincts under wrap. They don't just toggle off upon request as the adrenalin just disappears.
Don't you think we should hold cops to a higher standard those obvious thugs. Had it been four black cops that did that to a white man, I guarantee you there'd be an outrage.
What color am I? BTW, I just saw (after having read) "A Time to Kill" by John Grisham. Loved it when the black father shot and killed those two white guys who raped and attempted to murder his daughter. Now what color am I? It was even better when he was not convicted of the crime!
Dammit Kagy. . . where are your you gotta keep up with the trends It is just a song that demonstrates the feeling that cops have garnered in my community. When folx like Giddyup and Jeff says that every Bad Cop's actions makes it harder on the Good Cops. . . . this song is a prime example of it. Plus It is one of my favorite songs Rocket River
