Defense Wins Championships

Defense wins championships.

Let's restrict this to NBA talk only, I guess?? Ok??

I would say there are few absolutes...but poor defensive teams, no matter how good they are offensively, do NOT win championships. They just don't. See the Mavs...the Warriors of the Run TMC era...even the Suns of the mid-90's. Fun to watch??? yes. Champs?? no.

On the other hand...very good defensive teams, even if they're mediocre on offense, can and do win championships. See the Pistons of 89-90..last year's Pistons club as examples.

I think this is even more true in NFL football..but we're not talking NFL football. Exhibit A for me is the Baltimore Ravens super bowl team that had freaking Trent Dilfer at QB..went a few consecutive weeks without scoring a touchdown...and still won a championship.

As for the 80's...it's almost apples/oranges, because so few teams were committed to real defense. Truly, the Pistons of 89 really changed everything in that regard. They didn't have one player who averaged over 20 ppg...and they won back-to-back titles by freaking locking down.

 

03-04 Pistons, Spurs, Bulls, Rockets, Early 90s Pistons were all top notch defensive teams. The early 90s pistons defense was nothing compared to the spurs or the more recent pistons, but relative to that era, they were really really good.

i dont really know that much about 80s teams, but methinks defense wasnt as big a focus as it has been the few years.

 

The recent Lakers and Bulls championship teams were great defensive teams, as were the Rockets. Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq, and Hakeem are all excellent defensive players that anchored rotations that could shut teams down.

How many championships have the Kings and Mavericks won with their high tempo offenses? They haven't even gotten to the Finals.

The Spurs are also winning with Duncan, who never was the scoring champ or part of anything close to "Showtime."

 

Ummm ... no.

 

Kings and Mavs both had chance to win a championship but just came short.
They didn't have the luck but there were no doubt they were champion-caliber
in 02 and 03.

 

Statistically speaking,

They allowed more than 100 ppg both seasons, by today's standards, thats laughable.

Detroit allowed 84 ppg last year, the spurs 90 and 85.

relative the time, their defense was really really good.

 

Yes. Offense wins games. Defense wins championships.

 

Of course it's relative to the time. How else can we judge what a great defense is across generations of players (better shooters back then), rule changes, etc. ? Bottom line is that you compare how a team did against other teams in a particular season and you get a pretty good idea of where they stand.

The two championship years for the Bad Boys team had some phenomenal defense. Best ever? Maybe yes, maybe no. Certainly not out of contention thought.

BTW, 1990 Pistons lead the league in opposing team PPG with 98.3.

 

1985 Chicago Bears!!!.......nough said!

 

Leagues can do many things to prevent defenses from becoming the primary attributes of championship contenders. Take a look at the NFL's changing the rules about cornerbacks this year. Take a look at handchecking rules in the NBA which have changed how teams can play defense. Leagues can do a whole lot. Defense-first teams in my opinion are getting phased out on purpose. Noone wants to see the Ravens win another championship. Noone wants to see a defense-first Pistons team win another championship. It's bad for ratings.

The NBA is punishing defensive-minded coaches like Larry Brown, Jim O'Brien, and JVG now.

 

On the Bad Boys Pistons, both Dumars and Rodman were First Team NBA All-Defense both years they win. Pippen and MJ were First Team NBA All-Defense all 6 years they won.

When the Spurs won the first time, Duncan was First Team NBA All-Defense, and Robinson was a former First Team and NBA DPOTY. The second time, they added a Second Team appearance by Bruce Bowen. In between, the Lakers always had at least one guy make one of the defensive squads, and in 2/3 years, they had two.

The defense on this past years' Pistons goes without saying.

The only team I didn't mention were the Rockets. We had Hakeem, and that was all we needed. Thorpe and pre-creaky knee Robert Horry could also be considered well above average defenders.

 

The rules are being called correctly now....defense is now having to be honest and use their feet and not their hands.

So, boxing out, and rebounding are arguably as important as defense.

I think the team that can score and rebound has a huge advantage.

I mean if you out score your opponent, don't you always win?

DD

 

Don't forget that the '94 Championship was labelled "uglyball" by everyone outside of Houston & NY because of the slow tempo and the defensive battles.

 

sometimes.


only because the rules are being called correctly this year the suns and sonics look so good. and the pistons and rockets are .500 teams.

what will be interesting is how the league will officiate the playoffs. post season is nutorious for being the time to slow down and play half court. that will play right into our/pistons hands....if we make the playoffs as the 8th seed against the suns or sonics, i like our chances.

 

Of course. It's just easier to score more if you hold them to little points.

Playoffs means teams play eachother repeatedly. The easy buckets are taken away as teams know each other much better than regular season. Without easy buckets, you have liittle control of you roffense. You only hope you hit your outside shots(one reason a dominant big man is treasured).

Defense is another story, you have complete control over it.

 

IMHO, I believe that it is true.

When people talk about offense, "fun" is usually associated with it while defense is "desire". So in my amateur pshysological analysis, teaching a team to have a desire to play D also provides the team the mental exercise to be tough and passionate about winning.

Another advantage of D on O is that good offensive teams can sometimes have off nights. While you can always rely on good defensive showings.

 

it was only ugly because the knicks made it that way. we averaged over 100 ppg in the regular season and probably did similarly in the playoffs until that knicks series. the knicks thugged that thing up.


i'd say defense wins championships, right up there with offense, and neither being as important as having a dominant, have-to-double-team-hiim type scorer.


the pistons were obviously a defensive team.

the spurs were more defensive than offensive.

the lakers were more offense than defense. they may have had a guy make the all-defensive team, but they had two ridiculously good scorers that made them go. kobe and shaq's O far outweighed their D. hell, the lakers never really played D until the last 5 or 6 minutes. they just coasted on D and let their offense carry them. few teams had the ability to keep up with kobe and shaq even with the D on cruise control and thus by the time the last 5 or 6 mintues rolled around, they usually had a lead and then just put you away.

the kings would've beat that lakers team if not for the refs in game 6 and of course they would've beaten the east representative. they would be even more of an offensive team than the lakers. getting screwed doesn't mean it doesn't work. of course, like i said, having the dominating stars is really even more important, and the lakers had it (and the calls that go with it) over the kings and won.

the bulls were an awesome defensive team. they were also an awesome offensive team (which is why they won 72 and 69 games in back to back years). i'm not sure what i'd rate above what. the O was very efficient and even when it screwed up rodman always seemed to just get a tip in or offensive rebound and start it all over. the D could be suffocating.

the 95 rockets playoff run was much more about offense than defense. obviously we had the badass named hakeem for D but nonetheless we were scoring pretty good back the and with hakeem, drexler, horry being on fire, and then all of our other 3 point shooters, you couldn't keep up with us.

in 94 we were more a defensive team than offensive team.

so in the end, to me neither is more important than the other. you won't win being the miami heat or knicks with all D and a terrible O (detroit's O wasn't terrible) and you won't win with all O and no D like run TMC or the mavs. you always need balance. and until the pistons came along, you always needed a dominant top 1 or 2 player. which is why i say that's more important than how strong the O or D is. that's just a function of the type of talent you bring in. as long as the top 2 player and enough talent (O or D) is in place, you can win it all.