*NOTE: READER BEWARE, THE FOLLOWING POST IS INTENDED FOR "WHERE DO WE STAND" PURPOSES. NOTHING BUT THE COLD FACTS. PLEASE DO NOT BE OFFENDED IN ANY WAY IF YOUR FAVORITE PLAYER IS RIPPED IN THIS THREAD...IT'S ALL FOR THE LOVE OF THE TEAM.* With the season pretty much over, and the Rockets destined for Lotteryville, I felt it necessary to evaluate what we currently have on our roster, and decide what moves need to be made from there. Steve Francis: Only 22 years old, with a huge upside. Good athleticism and ball handling skills. Ability to shoot from deep has been a pleasant surprise. Lack of defense has been a disappointment. Needs to work on middle-distance jump shot this offseason. I think he can become a great middle distance shooter because he has that ability to shoot on the move. Mad dashes to the basket will generate national attention...a definite plus. It is my personal opinion that he will become the best point guad in the game in just a few years. However, I don't think he will ever be a Jordan or Duncan (Win it on their own). He needs a fellow superstar. Movement: LOCK Shandon Anderson: 25 years old. Strengths are defensive ability, full court play, and offensive body control. When Shandon backs it up and tries to take his man off the dribble in the half-court set, it usually spells disaster. He is just not that good a ball handler, and he almost always loses the ball on that spin move he does. Perimeter shooting is not where I thought it would be. Shoots a flat setshot. Shandon cannot shoot on jumpers on the move. He is an excellent open-court player, and can take almost anyone 90 feet with the kiss off the glass. He is one of the best in the league at creating contact in the air and controlling his body. Overall body control is his greatest ability (in the post and in air). Movement: LOCK Cuttino Mobley: 25 years old. Cat's start against New York was a disaster resulting in 7 turnovers. His greatest ability is his one-on-one game. Incredibly quick first step, yet not as great as he claims it to be. He can catch fire from deep. I have seen him post up smaller guards down low...he is very strong for that wiry frame. Cat needs to keep the ball moving. He must learn how to quickly make his play within the flow of the system. MOVEMENT: Who knows? Will he go for the money in Chicago, or stay here for less and come off the bench? Kenny Thomas: 22 years old. Good shooter from perimeter for a big man. He has a very nice array of postup skills. He is not much of a presence defensively, and his body is not suited for the starting power forward game. At 6'8, he will never be the explosive shot blocker most of us would like to see. Still, a summer in the weightroom would definitely help his development. I like Kenny, and I think with the right weight conditioning he can become our power forward of the future. MOVEMENT: With the injury to Martin, and the recent Swift developments, we won't be drafting anyone better. Kenny stays as our starter for now, but if we get someone better, he is expendable. Kelvin Cato: 25 years old. Explosive leaper and athletic big man. It's all downhill from there. I just don't understand how a professional basketball player can be so uncoordinated and offensively incapable. His offensive game consists of the dunk and...the dunk. Rudy is forced to start Hakeem because Cato insists on coming off the bench. We all know what happens to players that piss Rudy off...they get Roderick Rhoded. $7mill to block a shot every here and there...either hit the gym or hit the road. MOVEMENT: This is not the player we watched this preseason. I'm hoping Cato is traded this offseason. Walt Williams: 29 years old. Good shooter, terrible defender. Can hit some tough runners in the lane. Two speeds: Slow and Slower. His $4.5mill contract isn't helping matters much, however he does seem to serve as a veteran presence out on the court. Francis and Cat like him alot. MOVEMENT: He goes. Carlos Rogers: 29 years old. His solid play earlier in the year may have opened some eyes around the league. However, he has struggled recently. Reminds me of Robert Horry. He just isn't strong enough to deal with starting power forwards in the post. Good weak-side shot blocker. He's not Hakeem Olajuwon but he does have a bit of a post-up game. I have seen a nice jump-hook from Carlos. Terrible jumpshooter. MOVEMENT: Expendable Bryce Drew: 24 years old. Claims that he plays his best in a structured offense with picks/screens, but I think otherwise. He is an excellent 3-point shooter in transition, and I really thought he could excel in this run-gun offense. MOVEMENT: Definitely traded. Mooooochie: Age: ? Our backup point guard. Nice crossover, decent quickness, and can get everyone involved. He knows how to make the most of his minutes. MOVEMENT: No matter how much Will may question his manhood, Moochie stays. Dream: 37 years old. Was an effective defender right after the surgery, but now even that is gone. Hakeem just cannot stay on the floor for more than 3 minutes at a time, without passing out. His postup game is pretty much ineffective, and the jump-shot has not been there. He doesn't rise to the challenge as he always would, rather he now seems to fade back. MOVEMENT: Retirement. Pig Miller: Very hard worker. MOVEMENT: It would be nice to see him stick around for another season. Bullard & Grey: --- MOVEMENT: It was nice knowing you guys. POINT GUARDS: FRANCIS: LOCK MOOCHIE: STAYS DREW: TRADED Summary: Point guard is looking very solid for the next 10-12 years. Francis and Moochie complement each other beautifully. SHOOTING GUARDS: ANDERSON: LOCK CAT: QUESTIONABLE Summary: Shooting guard is very solid as well. Hopefully Cuttino will decide to stick around. SMALL FORWARDS: WALT: GONE BuLL: YEA RIGHT GREY: SEE YA Summary: This is by far the weakest position for the Rockets. I would really focus on drafting Morris Peterson this summer. POWER FORWARDS: THOMAS: STAYS ROGERS: EXPENDABLE MILLER: STAYS Summary: If Thomas continues his development, this doesn't look all that bad. However, I would like to try and trade for a starter via BRYCE+$4.5 exception. We need a banger. CENTER: CATO: PROBABLY STAYS, though I don't want him DREAM: ? Summary: Poor Rudy: what is the guy supposed to do when Hakeem can barely play, yet Cato insists on coming off the bench. This is a weak spot on the team. Trade Cato. ------------------ "Sources tell me that the Blazers held a team meeting after the two losses..." - "Pistol" Pete Vescey with the inside scoop. [This message has been edited by thacabbage (edited March 20, 2000).]
I agree with about every assesment you have Cabbage, however I feel differently about player movement. I am willing to give Cato the offseason to improve his game. Personally I think CD, Mr. Mean, and Rudy can teach this guy something about post play. I think they really did this with Othella, and he is still blossoming. I also think that if Cato could ever play almost 40 minutes a game he could average 10-14 pts. a game on dunks alone. When he has been good this season he is getting a lot of dunks off of guard penetration. I'll give him another year. I think Carlos will stick around simply because I love his effort. I know that Carlos is always hustling. As far as Kenny Thomas goes, I only he hope that he will one day learn to play passable D. Hakeem can retire whenever he wants to. ------------------
I agree with Playahata. I think Rudy, CD and Larry Smith can work with Cato and develop some of Cato's skills. I mean other than blocking shots and dunkin. Hopefully, he has the attitude and aptitude to learn. I think Thacabbage was pretty much on the money with his assessment. ------------------
Great post cabb, the Rocks haVE little talent in the post, and a hole in the sf position. Hopefully the Rocks can trade for a big man, cuz in my opinion, there aint no good big men in the draft that wouldnt be more of a project player than Cato and KT and Rogers already are. I also think the Rocks should draft a sf to get rid of some of the waste at that position. If Cat leaves, the Rockets take a step back. And unless the Rocks get a real post player, and a potential star, its going to be another long season next year. ------------------ Not only am I president of the WaltWizFanClub, I'm also the member. [This message has been edited by CriscoKidd (edited March 20, 2000).]
I agree with those who want to give Cato more time. Harrington and Willis had obvious athletic limits. Cato doesn't. Remember how Hakeem's offensive game developed over time. I'm not saying Cato will ever be in that league. But he's got the potential to be a dominant frontcourt player. And you can't say that about too many guys in the NBA today.
I think that Cato is a good fit if we can get a PF who can score in the post. I don't think Thomas is that guy, not yet at least. Cato doesn't need the ball, he can score with offensive rebounds and dunks after penetration by the guards. I think that right now, he could average 12pt and 8-10 rebs a night with 2 blks. Those numbers aren't great, but with the lack of good centers in the NBA, anything better that 12 and 8 makes a guy a top 7 center in the NBA. ------------------ - Beck Dream...bring back the goggles
I don't think Cato would be starting right now even if he wanted to. Hakeem has said this year that he 'expects to start' when healthy. I don't think Rudy is going to bring Hakeem off the bench as long as he's here and healthy. ------------------
sounds good cabbage i can tell you spent a lot of time. by the way once again my dream story is true, but see what i mean he fades away and has turned into a nightmare who should retire. as for the rest of your things i pretty much agree, cato is the question i think he can play but if he doesn't want to start then he is getting overpaid. mobley i dunnno sometimes i think he is too high on himself. he was talking the other day about how he has turned into a great player, i think he has a way to go before he is great. amazing all this time you have didn't clutch say you were a doctor?? ------------------ Shane "Save Our Rockets" "Life without basketball in Houston........without an arena that is what it will be"
Cato defintely wouldn't be traded unless some duncan deal comes along. Cato's offensive game may consist of mainly a dunk, but that's what kind of big men Francis needs. Garbage points. Same Rogers, that's why I think think Thomas would be traded before Rogers would. He also has more trade value. However, as I'm seeing the players develop in front me. A Thomas/Rogers PF rotation ain't that bad. Tall garbage-scoring guy, and a shorter more complete guy. I'm sensing we will go big SF in the draft for now, just a hunch. It has nothing to do with that Martin got injured, Swift and Morris not coming out, and that Fizer is probably the next best PF after Martin. ------------------ A big time draft site has tried to stunt our growth, but we will succeed! The little draft site that could!
It seems the only guy we can't agree over is Kelvin Cato. We all agree that Mobley, Francis, Anderson, and possibly Thomas are keepers. We also agree that Rogers, Wiz, and Drew are most likely out the door. It seems like the majority here thinks the Rockets faithful can work with Kelvin to develop his game. DREAMer, myself, and a few others just don't see any signs of that. You all mention Othella Harrington, but let's remember...Othella did have a decent inside game at Georgetown, and he atleast had the basic fundamentals down. Granted, he wasn't Tim Duncan, but atleast they had something to build upon. Let's not forget that he came ready to go to work every night. Kelvin doesn't even show the desire to do anything more than dunk, and his verbal assaults after every whistle are growing tiresome. From listening to Johnathen Feigen on 610 this morning, Kelvin Cato is tradeable. If you could draft a much cheaper guy like Haywood (with pretty much the same skill level), and then trade Cato, why would you not pursue the opportunity? ------------------ "Sources tell me that the Blazers held a team meeting after the two losses..." - "Pistol" Pete Vescey with the inside scoop.
Hats off to you cabbage head!!!!!! Cato: Mmmmmmm,he sure is a larger question mark for me than he was earlier in the season, as you seem to point out and others agree. Frankly, he is more lackadaisical lazy (unproductive) in the offense end, and more uncoordinated bully (unproductive)in the defensive end. To me, he needs some major maturing in all areas. Thomas: I still say he has tons of potential. I think he has more defensive skills than you feel and I definitely agree a bulking up this summer would change his game enormously. I think right now, he is more than a year ahead of Othella's game in comparison of rookie years. And that's not just KT's increased playtime experience. I think he has better hands(a softer touch),better feet (balance/positioning), and a much better repertoire of shots than O had in the first two seasons. Mobley: I am getting closer to the opinion that we may need his trade-ability to pick up something in the off-season. I would like to keep the Steve/Mooch/Shandon/Cuttino quartet, but Walt, Drew have got to go for some solid return ..... we may need MORE to trade. I'm talking a starting three, with instant effectiveness. Preferably someone long,lanky,and a shooter. My Wish List B. Grant: I would give up a lot to get him. Like you, I feel this team needs an offensive threat, but much more importantly ... a strong defensive presence at the PF position. Cato & Walt for Olowakandi: I just like the Kandi-man's attitude, his basic all-around ability, and his coachability. All of the things that I feel Cato should have made some improvement in this year, and did not. Besides, if Hakeem stays, he has to be put in a different role, and making Michael O'Kandi his pupil is a "no brainer" to me. Othella Harrington: Talk about things falling in your lap. O wants out of Vancover, has made some discreet inquiries about several places, including Houston. I would love to see him here in a 4/5 role. May even get the start depending on B Grant/Hakeem/Kandi/Cato developments. The Three Spot: I know you want a go to guy at the 3,as much as I do. The three and the four will have lots of player movement this summer in my opinion. Some guys like Camby, Spree, J Rose, A Jamison and Finley who are not your typical threes (2/3 or 3/4's), will be shopped as threes because of their explosiveness. Other guys like McGrady, G Hill, K Gill, Abdul-Wahad, R Lewis and Kurt Thomas can play the 2/3 or the 3/4. Depending on Cato and the Brian Grant movements we have a lot of hope in this three spot area.But like I said, I would venture to say it would take Mobes to get some of them. (BTW: Are you as impressed by L.Murray as I am? That guy has been unstoppable in the last six games.) Some Tim Duncan Scuttlebutt: I heard last week from some Texas people I trust, and they have convinced me Duncan will test the market in earnest this summer afterall. Apparently the lack of commitment by the Spurs to make some constructive moves during this past trading deadline has made him rethink his plan of opting for a one year contract and then deciding the following year on a bigger/extended one. I was also told that the handful of teams he has expressed an interest in is Miami, Orlando, Houston and Toronto(?). With that thought in mind, my head whorls and spins at the possibilities. Cheers,friend. [This message has been edited by popeye (edited March 22, 2000).]
Duncan and 'Zo on the same front line? That would be brutal and a combo that could give even the Diesel problems. Mango ------------------ It could be worse ....... you could have been born a Jazz fan!!!!
Duncan and ZO . . . IT makes the mind boggle. Big Fundamentals and Mr. Explosion. Fun to watch . . . ONLY IF THEY WERE IN ROCKET RED!!!! ' Camby, Spree, J Rose, A Jamison and Finley' It seems populat opinion is that Rose and Spree . . .maybe out of our grasp. . . What about the others? I like FINLEY . . . ALOT but how tall is he. . . he seems about the same Height as SA . .. and we need a taller 3/4 more than a 3/2 'twan Jamison and Camby could be interesting Rocket River ------------------
popeye, With a roster of older vets, it seems the Spurs were limited in the moves they could make. Other than Duncan, none of the other players really grabs your attention. They bounced back from their lottery year with a huge increase in the win column. That prevented them from getting another talented young player and limits their future. The grafting of Duncan onto a veteran roster for a quick championship instead of a complete rebuild might cost them Duncan. This might be very ironic. Mango ------------------ It could be worse ....... you could have been born a Jazz fan!!!!
Fantastic post Cabbage: Cato should be traded. I would strongly consider Cato and our #1 for Marcus Camby or Kandi. Problem is: there are few centers out there to go after. I'm thinking more on the lines of trading our #1 for a young, proven PF and keeping Cato and hope he starts playing more consistent D. With Cato sucking this year as you described, I really believe we should load up on PFs and use him only for D and dunking 25 minutes a game as he likes to do. Anyone think Indiana would trade Harrington for our #1? Or Boston with Fortson. I'd save Mobley right now for a blockbuster trade. ------------------ The farther the Rockets move down the standings, the farther I move down the bleachers. Glorious times for having fun at the game!
Popeye! Don't go teasing us with Duncan talk. Man!! I'd trade anyone for Duncan. Here we go: 1. I'd trade Walt and Drew for Duncan (as aelliott cringes), no really: 1. Mobley, Cato and our #1 for Duncan, then play Duncan at center. 2. Mobley, KT and our #1 for Duncan, then play Cato at Center. work out the salary problems with the exception and various combinations of whoever else. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited March 22, 2000).]
heypartner, I'll give you another scenario: Duncan says Miami is the place to be. Miami needs some cap space and wants to move PJ Brown because they can get by with Tim and 'Zo starting at the 4 and 5 with journeymen behind them. Rockets want some of that action? Mango ------------------ It could be worse ....... you could have been born a Jazz fan!!!!
Mango, If only we could work Walt into it ;-) I like the way you think!! What else Miami has laying around? Bowen, The shooter coming of the bench. . Voshon Lenard Rocket River ------------------
I don't see Camby being expendable, but Jamison is an interesting issue....what if he wants to be "Da Man" and now that Hughes is in G State, he's not anymore? He, to me, is the ideal PF for the rockets. If there was any way to get Duncan over here without totalling the team (aka not losing Francis) by all means go for it. We can very easily start Shandon at the 2 or the 3, and get a free agent or someone to play the other. I also like the idea of PJ Brown, and Grant. But, does everyone think the #5 or 6 pick in this draft won't be much? As far as I'm concerned, Swift hasn't declared either way, and could be just trying to keep the focus off him during this NCAA tournament. I heard a rumor somewhere else that Odom may not be happy in Clipperland, but don't know any facts behind that. ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
