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Compact Fluorescent Lightbulbs

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by MR. MEOWGI, May 3, 2007.

  1. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    Yay or Nay?

    I have been seeing them everywhere now. Yahoo News has the CBS video about them up now.

    I'm not sure what do to. I like that they last forever and save $, but I don't know....


    From NPR: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7543075


    CFL Bulbs Have One Hitch: Toxic Mercury

    All Things Considered, February 15, 2007 · The Environmental Protection Agency and some large business, including Wal-Mart, are aggressively promoting the sale of compact fluorescent light bulbs as a way to save energy and fight global warming. They want Americans to buy many millions of them over the coming years.

    But the bulbs contain small amounts of mercury, a neurotoxin, and the companies and federal government haven't come up with effective ways to get Americans to recycle them.

    "The problem with the bulbs is that they'll break before they get to the landfill. They'll break in containers, or they'll break in a dumpster or they'll break in the trucks. Workers may be exposed to very high levels of mercury when that happens," says John Skinner, executive director of the Solid Waste Association of North America, the trade group for the people who handle trash and recycling.

    Skinner says when bulbs break near homes, they can contaminate the soil.

    Mercury is a potent neurotoxin, and it's especially dangerous for children and fetuses. Most exposure to mercury comes from eating fish contaminated with mercury,

    Some states, cities and counties have outlawed putting CFL bulbs in the trash, but in most states the practice is legal.

    Pete Keller works for Eco Lights Northwest, the only company in Washington state that recycles fluorescent lamps. He says it is illegal to put the bulbs in the trash in some counties in Washington, but most people still throw them out.

    "I think most people do want to recycle, but if it's not made easy, it doesn't happen," Keller says. "And they're small enough to fit in a trash can. So by nature, I think most people are not recyclers. So if it's small enough to fit in a trash can, that's where it ends up."

    Experts agree that it's not easy for most people to recycle these bulbs. Even cities that have curbside recycling won't take the bulbs. So people have to take them to a hazardous-waste collection day or a special facility.

    The head of the Environmental Protection Agency program concedes that not enough has been done to urge people to recycle CFL bulbs and make it easier for them to do so.

    "I share your frustration that there isn't a national infrastructure for the proper recycling of this product," says Wendy Reed, who manages EPA's Energy Star program. That programs gives the compact bulbs its "energy star" seal of approval.

    She says that even though fluorescent bulbs contain mercury, using them contributes less mercury to the environment than using regular incandescent bulbs. That's because they use less electricity — and coal-fired power plants are the biggest source of mercury emissions in the air.

    "The compact fluorescent light bulb is a product people can use to positively influence the environment to… prevent mercury emissions as well as greenhouse gas emissions. And it's something that we can do now — and it's extremely important that we do do it," Reed says. "And the positive message is, if you recycle them, if you dispose of them properly, then they're doing a world of good."

    Reed says the agency has been urging stores that sell the bulbs to help recycle them.

    "EPA is actively engaged with trying to find a solution that works for these retailers around recycling the product, because it's really, really important," Reed says.

    But so far, she says the biggest sellers of the bulbs haven't stepped up to the plate.

    "The only retailer that I know of that is recycling is IKEA," she says, referring to the Swedish-owned furniture chain store.

    Reed says the EPA has been prodding other retailers, such as Wal-Mart, to do more.

    "We are working with Wal-Mart on it, we are making some progress. But no commitments have been made on the part of Wal-Mart," she says.

    Wal-Mart didn't respond to requests for a comment on the issue.

    EPA also has asked retailers to sell the lower mercury compact bulbs that some manufacturers are making. Engineers say you can't cut mercury out completely.

    Some other big companies have started paying attention to the recycling problem.

    General Electric has been making compact fluorescents for 20 years. Now the company admits that the little bit of mercury in each bulbs could become a real problem if sales balloon as expected.

    "Given what we anticipate to be the significant increase in the use of these products, we are now beginning to look at, and shortly we'll be discussing with legislators, possibly a national solution here," says Earl Jones, a senior counsel for General Electric.

    In fact, Jones said he was having his first talks with congressional staffers on Thursday.





    From Fox NEws: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,268747,00.html

    Junk Science: Light Bulb Lunacy

    Sunday, April 29, 2007

    By Steven Milloy

    * E-MAIL STORY
    * PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION

    How much money does it take to screw in a compact fluorescent lightbulb? About $4.28 for the bulb and labor — unless you break the bulb. Then you, like Brandy Bridges of Ellsworth, Maine, could be looking at a cost of about $2,004.28, which doesn’t include the costs of frayed nerves and risks to health.

    Sound crazy? Perhaps no more than the stampede to ban the incandescent light bulb in favor of compact fluorescent lightbulbs (CFLs) — a move already either adopted or being considered in California, Canada, the European Union and Australia.

    According to an April 12 article in The Ellsworth American, Bridges had the misfortune of breaking a CFL during installation in her daughter’s bedroom: It dropped and shattered on the carpeted floor.

    Aware that CFLs contain potentially hazardous substances, Bridges called her local Home Depot for advice. The store told her that the CFL contained mercury and that she should call the Poison Control hotline, which in turn directed her to the Maine Department of Environmental Protection.

    The DEP sent a specialist to Bridges’ house to test for mercury contamination. The specialist found mercury levels in the bedroom in excess of six times the state’s “safe” level for mercury contamination of 300 billionths of a gram per cubic meter.

    (Story continues below)

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    Column Archive
    o Junk Science: Light Bulb Lunacy
    o Junk Science: DDT Backlash Begins
    o Junk Science: Can’t See the Warming for the Trees
    o Renewable Energy, Enviros and New Job Creation
    o Global Warming and the Supremes

    Full-page Junk Science Archive

    The DEP specialist recommended that Bridges call an environmental cleanup firm, which reportedly gave her a “low-ball” estimate of $2,000 to clean up the room. The room then was sealed off with plastic and Bridges began “gathering finances” to pay for the $2,000 cleaning. Reportedly, her insurance company wouldn’t cover the cleanup costs because mercury is a pollutant.

    Given that the replacement of incandescent bulbs with CFLs in the average U.S. household is touted as saving as much as $180 annually in energy costs — and assuming that Bridges doesn’t break any more CFLs — it will take her more than 11 years to recoup the cleanup costs in the form of energy savings.

    Even if you don’t go for the full-scale panic of the $2,000 cleanup, the do-it-yourself approach is still somewhat intense, if not downright alarming.

    Consider the procedure offered by the Maine DEP’s Web page entitled, “What if I accidentally break a fluorescent bulb in my home?”

    Don’t vacuum bulb debris because a standard vacuum will spread mercury-containing dust throughout the area and contaminate the vacuum. Ventilate the area and reduce the temperature. Wear protective equipment like goggles, coveralls and a dust mask.

    Collect the waste material into an airtight container. Pat the area with the sticky side of tape. Wipe with a damp cloth. Finally, check with local authorities to see where hazardous waste may be properly disposed.

    The only step the Maine DEP left off was the final one: Hope that you did a good enough cleanup so that you, your family and pets aren’t poisoned by any mercury inadvertently dispersed or missed.

    This, of course, assumes that people are even aware that breaking CFLs entails special cleanup procedures.

    The potentially hazardous CFL is being pushed by companies such as Wal-Mart, which wants to sell 100 million CFLs at five times the cost of incandescent bulbs during 2007, and, surprisingly, environmentalists.

    It’s quite odd that environmentalists have embraced the CFL, which cannot now and will not in the foreseeable future be made without mercury. Given that there are about 4 billion lightbulb sockets in American households, we’re looking at the possibility of creating billions of hazardous waste sites such as the Bridges’ bedroom.

    Usually, environmentalists want hazardous materials out of, not in, our homes.

    These are the same people who go berserk at the thought of mercury being emitted from power plants and the presence of mercury in seafood. Environmentalists have whipped up so much fear of mercury among the public that many local governments have even launched mercury thermometer exchange programs.

    As the activist group Environmental Defense urges us to buy CFLs, it defines mercury on a separate part of its Web site as a “highly toxic heavy metal that can cause brain damage and learning disabilities in fetuses and children” and as “one of the most poisonous forms of pollution.”

    Greenpeace also recommends CFLs while simultaneously bemoaning contamination caused by a mercury thermometer factory in India. But where are mercury-containing CFLs made? Not in the U.S., under strict environmental regulation. CFLs are made in India and China, where environmental standards are virtually non-existent.

    And let’s not forget about the regulatory nightmare known as the Superfund law, the EPA regulatory program best known for requiring expensive but often needless cleanup of toxic waste sites, along with endless litigation over such cleanups.

    We’ll eventually be disposing billions and billions of CFL mercury bombs. Much of the mercury from discarded and/or broken CFLs is bound to make its way into the environment and give rise to Superfund liability, which in the past has needlessly disrupted many lives, cost tens of billions of dollars and sent many businesses into bankruptcy.

    As each CFL contains 5 milligrams of mercury, at the Maine “safety” standard of 300 nanograms per cubic meter, it would take 16,667 cubic meters of soil to “safely” contain all the mercury in a single CFL. While CFL vendors and environmentalists tout the energy cost savings of CFLs, they conveniently omit the personal and societal costs of CFL disposal.

    Not only are CFLs much more expensive than incandescent bulbs and emit light that many regard as inferior to incandescent bulbs, they pose a nightmare if they break and require special disposal procedures. Should government (egged on by environmentalists and the Wal-Marts of the world) impose on us such higher costs, denial of lighting choice, disposal hassles and breakage risks in the name of saving a few dollars every year on the electric bill?

    Steven Milloy publishes JunkScience.com and CSRWatch.com. He is a junk science expert, and advocate of free enterprise and an adjunct scholar at the Competitive Enterprise Institute.
     
  2. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    I installed them every where that I could. My best estimate is that they save me $10/month in energy.
     
  3. m_cable

    m_cable Member

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    That Mercury stuff is scary. If that's the consequences for a broken bulb, then it might be more trouble than it's worth.
     
  4. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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    Nothing but CFL in my house. My bill dipped about $60 a month after I installed them. Keep your eyes peeled for deals, and keep the reciept and packaging. Most of them are guaranteed for at least five years.
     
  5. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I'm in the process of switching over. The environmental issue doesn't influence me. I just want to cut my electric bill. They take a moment longer to light up than A-bulbs. That's what I consider to be their primary drawback, but I think I can get used to that.
     
  6. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    It seems to me that the curly-q type:

    [​IMG]

    light up nearly instantly.

    The traditional shaped bulbs:

    [​IMG]

    do take a few seconds to warm up.

    I only put those in places where the bulb is exposed.
     
  7. pchan

    pchan Member

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    seriously, how often do you break a light bulb at home?

    Especially most homes have carpet floor.

    Fluorescent light is much more efficient and much 'cooler' than incandescent lamp.

    It's like people were all freakking out about nuclear power plant, but there are probably only 3 major nuclear accidents.
     
  8. TraJ

    TraJ Member

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    It would be nice if there was some kind of system in place to recycle/recover the mercury from them.

    I'm using them where I can.
     
  9. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    Well you could stick with what you've got but add some LED light bulbs for areas where you don't brighter light.
     
  10. IROC it

    IROC it Member

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    I've used them since 2002. In every spot. The initial investment was kinda pricey, especially then. But I've only had to buy about 16 (2 eight packs from Sam's) extra bulbs in 5 years, and that's mainly because we have a larger house with more fixtures now.

    Seems like I've only had 4 go out on me in 5 years... out of about, maybe 40 bulbs...

    Saved about 76% on my bill back then... haven't switched back since. We even have the little designer bulbs, and the flood lights inside and outside in the motion detectors...

    Much less heat. Very bright. Can't go wrong.
     
  11. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    California utility companies give a rebate on these suckers. They can be found 1/2/3 for a dollar. After it warms up, it beats a home floodlight in brightness.

    The whole mercury issue is disturbing. I've had one break already. Not sure how I dealt with it...must be the mercury.

    I'm not a big fan of the Faux News article. The writer seems to make a big stink just to needle environmentalists over a health issue when they're just as skeptical over other health issues.

    Plus, Superfund didn't cost tax payers that much money since it was corporations who were in the industry that paid to clean up the mess created by other companies. It wasn't perfect, but it's easier to play the programs imperfections while secretly sliding the burden upon taxpayers to clean up toxic hotspots.
     
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    That's the kind I use. You're right. They're "nearly" instant. But, incandescents are faster. When I did my first room with the curlies, every time for at least a week, I would flip the switch, do a double-take, think "have all my light bulbs gone out?" and then they would light up. It only takes a fraction of a second, but it's long enough to allow me to do a double-take.

    In the late '90s, I had a summer job changing light bulbs for the university. Our boss was also in charge of university recycling, and his mission was to convert the whole school to compact flourescents. So I put a ton in. I had a crazy coworker who found out we had to pay a company to recycle the used flourescent tubes we were collecting. So, he took it upon himself to quietly dispose of the tubes in trash bins (nevermind the fact we also paid for landfill space -- probably more). We had a storage room of a thousand boxes of tubes (20 tubes per box I think), and he wanted to empty it on the sly. I had to threaten to turn him in to make him stop.
     
  13. basso

    basso Member
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    i've installed them in the bathroom and kitchen, and so far really like them. they're much cooler that incandescent bulbs, and the light can be wuite good. i've found i can also install a lower wattage bulb, say a 60 where i would have used a 75, and get just as bright light. tried a could of different ones, and preferred the GE Soft White. the GE "Energy Saver", altho they look they same, producer a colder light which i didn't like.

    amazon sells them, and has good prices.
     
  14. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    CFL all over the apartment and house.

    Read a stat the other day; if every house in America replaced just two old incandescent bulbs with the new CFL bulbs it would be the equivalent of taking 11 Million cars off the road.
     
  15. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    So calling hazmat when one breaks isn't a concern to anyone? :D
     
  16. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    I got a free curly-Q one from Home Depot on Earth Day, and I installed it in my front porch light.

    I like it, and it seems brighter with the same wattage as the old bulb.

    Home Depot sells 3 packs of them for $7, so I think I'll go over there one of these upcoming weekends and buy 4 or 5 packs to switch out all of the lights in my house.
     
  17. Amel

    Amel Member

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    I got them in my bathrooms and bedrooms
     
  18. basso

    basso Member
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  19. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    Those are exactly the same except one has a plastic cover on it.
     
  20. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    Make sure you replace your bulbs with the same Lumen output of CFL.


    If you need more light in a certain area where you have a 100watt incan then try a 40 watt CFL.

    Also be aware most are the soft white (read yellow) variety but you can get and color temp you want.


    A huge advantage most people miss is the heat generated is almost 0. This helps a ton in the summer.
     

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