I already posted this in the Najera thread, but it's worth repeating here: ___________________________________________ For the last time, guys, get it straight: Collier was not traded straight up for Pryz. Damn. Get it in your heads. Pryz was traded for Collier and Minnesota's 1st round pick in 2001, likely a mid 1st rounder. And this summer's crop will be very deep, especially in big men. There is no way to evaluate whether we have gotten equal value for Pryz, just like we don't know whether we got value for Drew. We haven't frikkin' selected the players yet, or used the picks in a potential trade or whatever.
Don't forget that Milwaukee's pick should be quite in the bottom of the draft since they are a lock for the playoffs. ------------------ By moonlight, we RIDE ten THOUSAND side by side...!
Even if Milwaukee's pick is no 20 we could still use that pick to take Ken Johnson. Who is he? Well he can do everything that Pryz can do except he's a bit skinnier, Would you trade a 7 footer who can bang and block for a 7 footer who can bang and shoot and a 7 footer who can block? I would. Pryzbilla is NOT a complete player (and with the mechanics of his shot may well never be!). Collier is NOT a complete player (and with his court speed and jumping ability may never be!) Both players are significant role-players and both have a different skill set that they can bring to the table. The advantage of having Collier over Pryz is that he can contribute something on both ends of the court. Not sure who is the better player, but with and additional first round pick I'd take Collier ------------------
Chauncy Billups got; 12pts 4 stls 2 rebounds 1 asst 21 minutes not bad huh? Todd Fuller got; 12pts 7 rebounds 3 blocks 0 T/O's 21 minutes. not bad huh? ------------------
DrNuegebauer, You are an entertaining poster. Keep up the good work. Mango ------------------ Test Your NBA Trade Ideas 1. Put new topics in the proper forum. Things happening in the rest of the NBA 2. Use clear wording for new threads. 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult. The Serious Police are watching. Donate Blood or be assimilated!
You want humor? You got it - Kenyon Martin (in NJ defeat of MIA): 11 pts 3 rebs 1 ast 0 blks 24 min I'll bet the Nets now wish they had traded with the Rocks!! ------------------ GATER [This message has been edited by GATER (edited October 11, 2000).]
Oh yeah! If a guy hasn't developed by the summer leagues and the first pre-season game, anybody who knows anything about basketball can tell you he will never be worth diddly. ------------------
The problem with this line of reasoning is that you traded away a player that is currently contributing for a player, Christmas present, whatever that will need time to develop. ------------------ Not only have the Drew bashers crossed the line, but they've sprinted a couple of miles beyond it.
I have a hard time taking someone who calls himself Dr Neugebaeur seriously. You see, that´s the name of a second rate chocolate brand around here Ease up on the caffeine dude. ------------------ By moonlight, we RIDE ten THOUSAND side by side...!
agreed that jason collier will probably never be an nba superstar or even a great starter. for that matter, though, neither will joel p. here's the thing, though, we have one more pick next year, probably mid-20's, who might net us a surprise star! at worst case, it will net us another collier/pryz type player. so we get 2, milwaukee gets 1. in my books that ain't bad. now, then, is collier a lottery pick? hell no. could we have done better? probably so, if you're talking about a better all around player at any position. there were other guards out there. but that's not where our needed area was (or is). we're a guard heavy team who needs big boys who can shoot the pill. for what we needed, collier fit. he's not lottery material, but that doesn't matter because he was the best available shooting big man and we parlayed a pick in next years draft out of the bucks. i'm not a collier fan, but i understand the move. give him a chance. he might hit a bucket or two in the minute or two of time he'll get in each game. he might get a foul or five in the minutes he gets against shaq. if he can do that, he's served his purpose. ------------------ Essentially the top two players to come out of college the last couple of years are Duncan, Carter, and Francis. - vince
Defending Collier: Bradley gave dream headaches offensively, so why condem a rookie with no experience for a 1-3 night against one of the best shotblocking/ shotchanging centers in the world. He could evolve into the next Sam Perkins with more polish on his game. ------------------
Alright! They named a chocolate brand after me! Where is "round here" for you Thanos? ------------------
Going into the draft, the 2 key pieces the Rockets needed were: a low post scorer, and team defense. They knew Francis (as well as Cat) were working on their D, and part of that should develop in time. We lacked a low post scorer severely. No scoring PF or C was left,and the only guy I can recall that had good offensive potential was Jerome Moiso (who if many recall, I liked a lot). The Rockets were said to be impressed with Kelvin, and what good would another defender do? Enter the situation. Collier is available, and at #15, there's also a chance of Etan Thomas being there, who'd get you your defender AND an additional pick. It turns out later, we land MoTay, and Collier's role isn't well defined. Basically, what I'm saying, is at the time, Collier seemed somewhat logical. He was probably the most proven offensive big man commodity on the board. I wonder if the Rockets would like to have that deal back now, and chosen Pryz, or Moiso, or made the trade and at 15 pick up Tsakalidis, who is now cleared, or a guy like Magloire or maybe pickup a youngster like Stevenson or Harvey to sit on the bench and rise in value (a la Jermaine O'Neal). I still question why the Rockets didn't trade for Mihm like Cleveland did, because the odds of Cleveland picking a PG (Crawford) for themselves, when they have Miller AND Knight, are slim to none. I think the best determiner for Collier's effectiveness will be how he performs against LA, or SA-his effectiveness in drawing out a dominant post player. ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated.
