Just emerged from post-postseason depression. Wanted to throw this term out there. I was on the toilet today and it dawned on me that the collective guilt concept, though reserved almost exclusively for the Holocaust and its subsequent sociopolitical reckoning (and applied somewhat in a legal sense), might have relevance today. What I mean to ask is: Do I as an American, as a citizen of the Western world, as a human being, share some sort of collective guilt for the **** that's going on around the world these days? When Tibetans are oppressed by China, do I share collective guilt for standing by and doing nothing, perhaps even doing good business with China? When Palestinians are oppressed by Israel, do I share collective guilt for doing nothing, perhaps even paying taxes to the US govt which goes to bankroll these oppressors? When the US props up corrupt dictators in the Middle East and around the world, when our soldiers commit these war crimes, do I share collective guilt for reelecting the same set of leaders that sets these policies? When corporations are destroying our environment, poisoning developing nations with their waste/pollution, cheap products, and cigarettes, do I share collective guilt for doing nothing, and maybe even buying Phillip Morris stock occasionally? Just wanted to leave these thoughts with you guys. Let me know what you all think!
Yes. And arguably more than those who live in places like N. Korea, who have far less say in leadership and policy than we do.
I sure the hell do. Being a voting citizen in the world's only super power brings with it great benefits, but greater responsibilities.
Yes Palestinians are oppressed by Israel, perhaps even worse than Black S. Africans were by Apartheid. Some of the measures can be excused because of security reasons but many can not. The fact that Palestinians are forbidden from drilling new wells for water, while Israeli settlers on the west bank are allowed to has zero to do with Israeli security and is based on nothing more than nationality of the driller. That is oppression When the water allotment given to a Palestinian farmer which must include irrigation, bathing, cooking, and drinking water, is equal to what the Israeli allotment is for drinking water alone, that has nothing to do with Israeli security and is based solely on nationality, and is oppression of a certain group of people. The list goes on, and on. I'm only mentioning the ones that in no way could be construed to be a part of Israel's security too.
my logical follow-up to this is this. i mean if we are all haunted by some sort of collective guilt, then couldn't some people take us to task for our sins? what if one day america loses her place at the top? will other nations rise to impose multi-billion dollar settlements on us and our children for these sins that are being committed today, much like what we do to the rest of the world? or worse, they might take a whole different approach... maybe something altogether more violent.... oh wait, i think it's already begun...
is that "we challenge" or we're challenged? America is like a 14 year old right now. We think we know everything and no-one can tell us what to do.
You forgot the part about America being a 14 year old who knows bad monkey jujitsu and can kick the crap out of the rest of the old men in the neighborhood. That's the scary part.
Like many great empires and nations, the US will eventually collapse from within. Then again, we're in an age where space war is a foreseeable reality not too distant so who knows where empires may lead. If the Palestinians don't like the way the ruling government runs things and looks down on them, they can A) leave Israel, B) stop causing problems, or C) both. Once you make a name for yourself, it pretty much sticks, especially if you continue to prove that your name is deserved. The Palestinians don't like being known as terrorists and against peace, then they need to stop rioting and definitely stop with the attacks. What kind of heathen would support a organization that murders innocent people, women and children included, on a regular basis?
The two aren't related. The Palestinians should stop terrorism, that is true. However a seperate issue is the fact that they are oppressed, and Israel needs to stop oppressing them. The Palestinians don't need to go anywhere to not deserve to be oppressed. I'm also not referring to any Palestinians that happen to be in Israel. I'm talking about the Palestinians that live in lands being occupied by Israeli soldiers which is a different thing. Sharon himself referred to Israel as occupiers.
nothing justifies targetting school buses and sidewalk cafes... but you can't, with a straight face, assert that israel has not oppressed the palestinians.
That is the exact point I was trying to make. We need to tackle both issues. Never in a million years would I say that suicide bombings are acceptable, and shouldn't be dealt with. Never in a million years would I say the occupation and mistreatment of a people based solely on their nationality shouldn't be dealt with either. I also happen to believe that when you tackle both problems with a similar zeal, and effort, the chances for success in both cases may be strengthened, and each may play a part in ending the other.
absolutely. there is a book by a palestinian christian who was a boy when the israeli occupation began...when the land they had lived in for generations was taken...when their farms and villages were burned to the ground. i'll try to remember the name and the author and get that to you...very interesting read. very sad.
Thanks Max I would enjoy checking that book out. If you think of it let me know. Otherwise I'll search around until I can see if I can figure it out.
