You see - now this I agree with too. But you never said it! All you kept bringing up was your view that she had a misplaced sense of "sacrifice" over her dead son. Bah.....
Both parties, yeah, I guess all the Americans who don't give a damn about both major US parties are enemies of the US as well. So if you forged alliance with one's rival to rid someone, by employing such tactics as assassination, what do you expect that person to do? Be like Jesus and turn the other cheek? Nice try, except that OBL never supported the poor in the US, rather, he killed the Americans indiscriminately on 9/11/01, that makes him a US enemy.
I never made a value judgement as to whether he should or shouldn't be an enemy of the US or whether he is or isn't justified in it. That doesn't change the fact that he *is* an enemy of the US, and Cindy Sheehan mingling with him was purely political and had nothing to do with trying to hasten an end to the war.
i mentioned her outlandish actions and comments. I guess i didnt clarify b/c i thought we knew of her over the top deeds.
That's very debatable. First, there are fundamental differences between philosophical rhetorics and concrete hostile actions. Second, the political landscape is always in constant disequilibrium and the "declarations" of foes and friends can change overnight -- we have plenty of examples where we sleep with strange bedfellows. Third, which you failed to address, when A is foremostly determined to make B an enemy, what B does in response should be looked at upon within context.
That's nice and all, but Chavez's policies pre-date Bush, and his goal to form an alternative western hemisphere influence originated long before Bush ever took office. Hating on Bush is purely rhetoric for him to strengthen his power, but has nothing to do with his actual objectives. Just a convenient and easy target.
I've never met Donkey Magic or yourself in person but if we were sitting around in person with you. I would say that your attitude towards Cindy Sheehan's loss, saying she didn't sacrifice anything, is classless. I wouldn't hold that against meeting you in person or would I consider that as something defining about you but that is my opinion about this particular view and I would share that with you in person or online. One of the reasons why I stuck with using my name and not a moniker is to keep me consistent as the same person online and off. Some people might find that difficult but I find it keeps me honest.
I haven't gone back to read all of DM's threads, but as one who parsed the use of the word sacrifice, my criticism was not of her but of those who would use that word to describe her loss. I'm not sure if she herself ever used that word.
Well, gee, if you weren't trained in the martial arts, I'd fly to Minnesota and kick your ass........ j/k (is that internet bravado you display?)
im sorry, but her son being killed is not her sacrifice., in my view. Isnt a sacrifice something that one voluntarily gives up? i dont think you can call it her sacrifice by definition. thats all. she sacrificed to protest and do what she did, i'll buy but as it pertains to her son, its a different story i think Now, that doesnt mean i dont understand or have compassion for the lost of a loved one. im separating the two things, thats all. i dont think its that horrible. IM sorry that everyone is taking it so sensitively and thinking that my belief of her being a looney and thinking that technically it wasnt 'her sacrifice' is somehow classless. i just dont see that. i believe it was rocket river who said that "she sacrificed her son", and that was where i disagreed and somehow b/c i dont think that terminology is correct im classless lol. boys...its time to step outside. Hold my beer.
It has nothing to do with internet bravado just that I try to be the same person online as I do offline. I'm as blunt as I am online inperson. Often too blunt. As for kicking your ass don't worry there's only one Clutchfan who's ass I'm gonna kick. Yeah that's you Sam Fisher.. You keep on thinking I've forgotten the Kumite challenge you've thrown down. So keep on picking fights with KAS and other clutchfans but just remember that Yao Ming Kicks Ass is lookin to kick your ass...
When someone does something terrible or dies due to something stupid or criminal you often hear the parents say, "We let them down and didn't do enough." So while adult children have free will parents will always feel an obligation towards those children and a sense of guilt regarding their children's actions. So while Cindy Sheehan's son voluntarily entered the military we don't know how much responsiblity she feels for that decision. From the standpoint maybe she feels she sacrificed her son by either encouraging him to join or not doing enough to discourage him from joining. Your argument though that she didn't make a sacrifice is diminishing whatever grief she feels regarding how she felt towards her son and what sort of relationship they had. For that matter if you are going to belittle whether she made a sacrifice or not you might as well say that she didn't suffer a loss either since she didn't lose her life either. Disagree with her politics or her political rhetoric but I would say trying to diminish her loss by spinning the term "sacrifice" is classless.
you could easily exchange bush for chavez in everything you said. Bush is an enemy of the US. Bush is on a path towards dictatorship. He uses Chavez/Bin laden/Saddam as an easy target, but rhetoric doesn't decide whether one is an enemy of the US or not. Bush has purposely formed alliances with enemies of the US (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Jundullah - a taliban infected terrorist group started by 9/11 mastermind khalid sheik mohammed) and is anti-democracy, locks up political dissidents (this will happen soon than later, i suspect), etc. Bush has pretty much come out and stated the US & its philosophies are the enemy.
Cindy Sheehan personified the growing outrage military families and well wishers were feeling with Iraq. It was also at a time when leadership from both sides were clearly lacking or non-existent. This type of politics, where people operate behind the shadows in fear of being exposed, really disillusions me of democracy, and I bet it has sucked Cindy dry. I wouldn't call her a victim because she seemed to take responsibility and power for her views and comments, but how the left betrayed her seems to have gone unnoticed or ignored.
You're an idiot. This is state of the union like garbage. Explain to me how people's freedoms would be threatened if this war in Iraq never happened. "Freedom isn't free. It takes folks like you and me..."
