Good argument. I had a different college experience than you, though. The campus at my college was sandwiched between an industrial district and a slum, and while it was safer than the surrounding neighborhood, crime was much more prevelant than say, across town in the affluent or middle class neighborhoods. If anyone who lived on campus installed a custom stereo in his or her car, we'd take bets on how long it would last. Campus police was a joke. I rarely saw any outside of their cars or the coffee shops. We had those kinds of fun, but often it was at an off-campus fraternity house with hired security. I just think these decisions should be left to the administrators of individual schools. Students will vote with their feet on their preference.
i support the 2nd ammendment and have a chl... but having guns on campus is a bad, knee jerk idea. some one mentioned that taser had no accuracy and are too expensive. 1. dont have to worry about accuracy w/ a traditional taser. 2. if someone is at a distance they cant harm you unless they have a gun. and if theyre already pointing a gun at you, youre screwed. 2. if tasers arent your thing, get mace 3. wouldnt they price in the same range as a hand gun? what about rapes... 1. majority of rapes occur by an acquaitence so victim wouldnt be thinking about pulling out the gat. 2. someone cant rape you from distance unless they have a long long schlong. 3. if you have time to pull the gat out, youd have time to pull the mace/taser out. what about shootings... 1. very rare isolated incidences 2. id be open to the idea of having undercover officers sitting in classes 3. true keeping guns illegal on campus wont stop a crazed lunatic. but a crazed lunatic wouldnt stop even if they knew other students may have guns. their objectives are already set. thats why theyre crazed lunatics. whats the difference on campuses... 1. large densly populated area of young people. 2. campuses are generally safer so there is no need for handguns. for the sake of argument lets say guns are allowed... there is a crazed lunatic running around popping people in the head... 1. if you were in the room w/ the lunatic, would you have time to pull your gun? 2. would you be able to hit a moving target? 3. would you accurately be able to hit the target w/o risk to other students? 4. if youre in the building and you hear gun fire would you actually respond or would you get to safety? 5. if you respond, would you get there in time? youre walking back to the dorm at night alone and someone pops out and surprizes you... 1. would you be able to pull your gun in time? 2. if you did get your gun out, what if it happened to be a friend who was pulling a joke on you?
I am not talking about a crazy person or a criminal on campus. I am talking about an otherwise rational person that is pushed to violence. I have seen violent acts sparked by extreme frustration. IF that person were always carrying a gun because they were allowed to normally they are more likely to use it if pushed. If they are a rational person for the most part and thus would not be carrying a gun if it were against the law, they would simply lash out with their fists.
Good Stuff and still . . . with more guns on campus . . that means the crazies have more guns to 'stumble upon' Rocket River
Taser 1 I assume you mean one that does not shoot. This means you have to be very close. 2 (?) Mace has to be hit directly in the eyes (hard to do), usually hurts the person who sprays it, 3. The taser is about the price of a handgun, however a handgun bullet is about 10 cents and a taser cartridge is about 40 bucks. No one will ever practice shooting a taser but to hold a CHL you must show the ability to hit a person at 45 feet. Rape 1. Just because you know them does not mean you cannot protect yourself from them. Shootings (I guess) 1. your idea of officers on campus is already in place. It only reduces the first response time. It goes like this Killing---someone lives to call 911----first responders arrive your plan also offers nothing for self defense. For a person who spent hundreds on a CHL you sure think handguns are lousy for self defense. Most of your arguments are 1. tasers, mace, are just as good as a handgun 2. a handgun will not help if the other person has a gun 3. guns cannot help in rape 4. then you throw out accidental shooting senario. This boils down all of your arguments, and not ONE of them were specifically targeted at a campus environment. All are senario that could easily happen off of a campus, and yet you "have a CHL" care to explain why you have one yet believe they are so ineffective? also explain one of your senarios that could not happen OFF of a campus?
Maybe I shall take my "weal sauce" somewhere else now. But I know one thing. I am happy the people on these boards are not legislatures and such that have control of writing laws. Moving along now with my sauce, regards,
I am surprised how easily dismissed your statements that you would never pull a taser when your life is on the line. As a pretty calm person it really does kinda piss me off that no one cares what the pros are trained to do, because they want to promote what they feel should be better.
No we are not. The idea is self defense. No amlunt of security or laws will be as effective in a situation already present, than self-defense. Ofcourse security will reduce the likelyhood of an event (with limiting returns coming fast compared to investment) but once the event is going on, once it is happening, the people who have chosen to arm themselves off campus should have the same right on campus.
I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to say........ But it's obvious that you aren't supposed to use a taser when faced with a deadly force situation, i.e. guy pointing gun at you. A taser is a COMPLIANCE tool, i.e. someone trying to commit suicide or an unarmed belligerent person not wanting to be taken into custody.
1. taser and mace are just as good in close quaters. the idea is to immobilize the attacker so you can escape and call for help. (i think people would opt for a traditional taser as opposed to the ones that shoot out barbs.) 2. if a gun is already drawn on you, youre not gonna try to draw your own gun bc thats how you get killed. how fast do you really think you can draw your gun (and do it in a way that the attacker doesnt suspect youre going for your gun)? 3. so should people have one hand on their gun while hanging out w/ friends and acquaintences? when someone is being raped, the person is already on top of them. they may even be holding a weapon already (knife, gun, etc...) if the victim somehow manages to put distance between themselves and the attacker, then maybe theyll have a chance to pull the gun out and defend themselves. if not, then it just gives the attacker another weapon... 4. you dont think college kids cant pull practical jokes on each other? is it not a possible scenario? you hear of accidental shootings happening all the time. if guns are allowed on campus, what makes you believe they wont happen on campus also? i dont see how you can say my arguments dont apply to college campuses? yes these scenarios happen off campus but allowing guns onto a campus would invite these scenarios onto campus as well. one more point. if guns are permitted on campus by chl holders... whats to stop people who say "i dont have a chl but i have to keep a gun in my dorm room to defend myself..." no thank you! it is tru that in order to obtain a chl, you have to pass a shooting proficiency test. but those were paper targets. try hitting someone on the move. and can you guarantee the bullet wont hit a student whose hiding behind a desk? or the bullet pierces the wall and hits a student in the next room? thats a lawsuit waiting to happen. tuition is already expensive enough. handguns are effective self defense weapons to a certain degree. but even with one, you are not completely safe. there will always be crazy people out there and having a gun wont deter them from being crazy.
Again why do YOU have a CHL if a handgun is so useless? Your arguments are all arguments against a handgun as a defensive tool. Police carry a taser and are trained in using it, but as we have been told, they are not used for self defense. The reason it is important that all these senarios are just as possible OFF CAMPUS is that the argument for a CHL has already been made and won.
"handguns are effective self defense weapons to a certain degree. " if im rolling into a bad part of town, of course id take my handgun... it would be idiotic not to... my argument is against allowing guns onto college campuses which is the topic of this thread. im not against guns or self defense... see my posts on the thread about about Joe Horn if you dont believe me... but to say that allowing handguns on campus will make colleges totally safe is a foolish argument. the benefits of allowing guns onto college campuses do not outweigh all the realistic arguments that i have put forth.
great we are now getting to what I like, benefits vs cost right? (Is the bold parts quotes of yours or?) So far the costs you have mentioned are 1. Accidental shootings 2. Accidental shootings during use (or while defending ones life) Also I never said it would be totally safe did I? Seriously lets break this down and see where we disagree.
i don't think you can show this. It is just a guess. I think you would have more people want to (and get) a CHL but I don't see why a law abiding person would do this illegally only after people are doing it legally.
why wouldnt it. gun activists would push the envelope and start to saying "hey, why do you have to have a chl to be in possession of a gun? students will only keep their guns in their dorm rooms. they wouldnt be carrying their weapons in public..." you can also add the fact that tuition would rise bc im sure insurance companies would raise premiums on universities for liability.
this isn;t happening in other places. You are really pushing it now and grasping. first off if insurance cared why would they not make businesses post 30.06 signs or threaten to raise premiums? secondly campus is state property thus has a little different relationship with insurance. this is getting crazy, seriously man you have a CHL? Post a pic of your carry rig on top of a piece of paper that says danny317.
i dont know how much more realistic i could be on this topic. as far as insurance, its already established that campuses are gun free. if i were an insurance co. removal of a gun ban on school property would be dollar signs in my eyes. now most universities are publicly funded or recieve heavy subsidies/grants so im not sure what the state would say. maybe thell pass a law or a new tax to stop or offset higher premiums. this would be up to the state. i dont like to advertise my hardware bc its supposed to be concealed. ill email you a pic if thatll make you happy. im hard at work now ( ) so youll have to wait until later.
sounds good to me. use the link under my profile to email, in holster pics please you have to admit in the 12 years of CHL being in Texas, 30.06 signs are few and far between, so insurance companies obviously don;t care.
