In my past, I was pro death penalty. In high school, I kept flip flopping, but usually being for it. I changed my mind the last time in college and have been against it ever since. Amendment IX The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. Amendment VIII Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. Amendment IX means to me their are certain things the governement can't take away from a man. Crimes allow a government to take away some liberties and the pursuit of happiness. Is the US government given the power to kill its citizens for their crimes by the people? Amendment VIII means to me no cruel, unusual, or excessive punishments shall be inflicted. Think of a punishment more cruel than death that doesn't involve torturing a person to death. Arguments both ways using the Consitution, its 27 amendments, the Bill of Rights, Federalist papers, good logic, and/or interesting theories would be greatly appreciated.
thanks for your thoughts on this, Joe Joe....I struggle with this issue too. I guess my real problem with it is the fact that I KNOW without a doubt that the legal system isn't perfect...I honestly believe it's the best of all possible systems for arriving at truth...but I don't think we get it right 100% of the time. If even one innocent man dies, that's a real problem for me. I've been an ardent supporter and an ardent attacker of it in my lifetime...now I fall somewhere in between...I think I'm beginning to lean more against it...but I'm not sure.
I used to have no problems with it. Now, I'm leaning towards at least suspending it for a number of reasons: (1) There are too many mistakes. Yeah, screwing a person for 10-20 years is stil an issue, but but its better than screwing someone forever. (2) I don't believe it to be an effective deterrent. I don't think anyone decides not to commit a crime because there is a death penalty as opposed to life-without-parole. (3) Given #2, I don't see any benefits to the death penalty. It's more expensive to execute someone than hold them in prison for life, it requires a whole different penal system / equipment (especially in states that execute one or two people a year), and causes excessive strain on the court systems. (4) Removing it would eliminate a massive amount of resources being used be rights-organizations to be used on other more useful endeavors (this is tangential benefit). (5) Life-in-Prison seems to be a harsher penalty anyway than death, in some ways.
agreed with #5...just need to make sure that life in prison is a sentencing option for judges and juries
<B>agreed with #5...just need to make sure that life in prison is a sentencing option for judges and juries</B> Yeah -- it's not an option in Texas, right? That's one the dumbest things the legislature could do.
I'm against it, but then again, I think prisoners should have to work to eat. The more they produce, the better their living conditions and food. Just like in real life. If they don't want to work, they can sleep on the floor and eat a sustenance diet. If they don't like it and don't want to eat, they can die. It's their call.
Wow...I just realized I'm against capital punishment and Pro choice....well, I don't know if pro choice is the way to describe me, but I'm not against abortions for mothers who don't want or can't afford to take care of their babies. Still, I'd never, never, never call myself a liberal.
<B>I'm against it, but then again, I think prisoners should have to work to eat. The more they produce, the better their living conditions and food. Just like in real life. </B> This is an neat idea. I'm not sure about hard-labor by itself (not everyone can physically do it), but I think building a "mini-economy" in jail would be very useful. You could offload a lot of basic government jobs to volunteers in jail who would get time cut off their sentence or more rights / freedoms within jail. It would also help teach responsibility and maybe provide some job experience for when people get out. That makes them less likely to become repeat offenders.
I'm against the death penalty for 3 reasons, then I have an addendum: 1. I think it's wrong to take human life except to prevent other deaths. Death is final. It rules out any chance for redemption. And as long as that's possible, and I think it is for anybody, I don't want to end a human life. 2. There's too great of a chance for error. Until we have a perfect legal system, with perfect evidence, I don't think I could support thte death penalty even if I changed my mind about #1. 3. Substantive due process. It's a legal theory, held by some conservatives and some liberals, that laws that cannot be implemented fairly, or that fail to meet a certain common sense threshold, should be chucked out of hand as unconstitutional pursuant to the 5th and 14th Amendments. In our legal system, people have varying levels of representation. The Baldus study, for example, found that even removing variables such as brutality of the crime, etc... black people were twenty five times more likely to receive the death penalty for the same crime as white people. This is clearly not acceptable, and demonstrates the inherent racism in the system. A racist system cannot be used on matters as important as life and death. Moreover, the system is also sexist and classist as well, as indicated by other studies that can be found at http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/ . Some of their editorials are sketchy, but they had links to some good studies when I last researched the topic. *Addendum - As for the argument that the death penalty is included in the Constitution, I reference the idea that changing standards of decency act in dialogue with the "cruel and unusual" clause to nullify this. But this is irrelevant to SDP anyway. But your such a good poster. There must be hope for you...
I don't believe capital punishment is liberal or conservative. Democratic and Republican parties have chosen their sides, but not all liberals are democrats and not all conservatives are Republicans. I equate liberal with a less strict reading of the Constitution and strong central government. I equate conservative with a strict reading of the constitution and limited government outside basic functions to prevent government from infringing on person's rights. Since I believe the Constitution doesn't give the US or its States (meant to reeference 14th-thx Haven) the right to capital punishment, I see it more of a liberal ideal that the conservative party has embraced because it believes punishment should fit the crime. Each party tends to only want to protect certain rights that it cherishes the most and to hell with other rights, but that is another thread. The above are my interpretations and should not be taken as fact, fiction, or a chihuahua.
I would be totally against the death penalty if we had a prison system that actually held criminals for their sentence. The issue for me is not that innocent people get convicted sometimes. In those cases, I would hope that justice would prevail, but I know it does not all the time. The issue for me is that our prison system does not work. People don't always serve their sentence, either because they break out or get parole or strike some deal before their sentencing. From what I've heard and read, prison is not all bad. They have recreation time, leisure activities, libraries, and televisions. Prisoners might think they need these luxuries but I don't. If you break the law, IMO, you give up any and all of your rights. And if you do something that warrants the death penalty, you've given up that right too. There are some cases where redemption is possible (like for Andrea Yates, IMO) but I think these are few and far between. Serial killers probably can't be changed. Teenage burgulars more likely can. Hopefully, science will continue to get better so we convict less innocent people.
First excerpt....Anyone that can strike a deal without capital punishment before sentencing would never be executed under capital punishment. Second excerpt....For the innocent in prison, they need leisure time and access to books to fight their case before they're executed. I believe books and TV as entertainment should be used as a reward for good behavior on less heinous sentences, but that's another topic. I'm against capital punishment on that I don't think it is the right thing by arguments made above by others and I don't believe the right has been given by the people to implement it even though it is in use. Get an amendement, but I'll fight you every step of the way. Peace.
princess. . . . girl i must admit. . you are a nice source of levity hehehehe prison isn't all that bad hehehehehehe WWWWWWUUUUUUUEEE anyway . . . If we gonna have the death penalty . .. it should be televised and gruesome. . . [honestly i would prefer the condemned be havested for parts. . but the potential for corruption would be ENORMOUS] Prisons down work [like TIME OUT doesn't work] our Prison system is Schtizo . .. It does not know what it wants to do . . . punish or rehabilitate It wants to do both . . . but really doesn't do either We need to revamp the whole system rocket River Princess I heard women living under the Taliban didn't have it so bad either.
Doesn't this just mean that white-people may not be punished appropriately and NOT that black people are over-punished? The problem is in the system not in the punishment, perhaps?
I remember reading something that states with life without parole have lower crime rates than those that have the death penalty without the option of life without parole. I used to be pro-capital punishment, but just not on that much. To me, I could understand why some criminals were put to death, I just thought it was done too much. However, now I'm staunchly anti-capital punishment. I don't think our government as a role in deciding who dies. And I've done all this <B>after</B> leaving school, and <B>after</B> growing older.
Princess, First, prison is not quite the college-dorm lifestyle you make it out to be. While the prisoners are afforded some luxuries, they also have their freedom sigificantly curtailed. Not to mention the danger of fights and same-sex rape. Second, I've talked with prison guards and every single one is for prisoners having TV and recreation time. Why? Because when you fill an enclosed area with dangerous criminals, you want them to keep busy. Prisoners who have empty time on their hand tend to make mischief (and that's putting it lightly). Better to distract them. Third, prisons (in theory) are supposed to also rehabilitate criminals. I'm sure you're aware that the more education one has, the less likely he/she is to commit a crime. If we are truly interested in cutting the crime rate, I think prison libraries and education are a good thing. Finally, the science is already there to make sure that innocent people are not convicted. The problem is getting hard-assed judges to allow the science to be used.
I'm 100% against the death penalty. I see no instance in which it is right for the prison system to take the life of another. In fact, I think the entire prison system in this country needs to be overhauled. Criminals who will be released need to be rehabilitated. The entire way we deal with the accused needs to change. Right now, we throw criminals in jail, they are given an environment which is typically non-conducive to self-change, and then they are released. There is not enough help for guiding these people to change their ways, and become productive members of society. And then we lock children up with hardened criminals and do it in the name of justice. Yet we are doing a greater injustice to them than they ever did to another. We become no better than the criminals themselves. The only exception I make is child sexual predators. I don't know what to do in that instance, but I do not trust these people when they are returned to society . . . no matter what. I know that I should be compassionate and give people a second chance, but I cannot with child sexual offenders. It is the worst crime one can commit, and I'd just as soon lock them up and forget about it.
Anyone read Bill O'Reilly's idea? He basically calls for turning Alaska into our version of Soviet Siberia. The plan sounds pretty good because it rids our consciences of the death penalty and gives criminals <I>real</I> punishment... And if someone were later found to be not guilty then they'd still be alive to be released and given a huge "my bad" check from the government.
You've obviously not peaked yet! On a more serious note: do you plan on worsening throughout your life? Do you not anticipate getting wiser as you experience more of what life has to offer, both good and bad? It must be tough to reach your peak mentally at age 25-28... all downhill from there!
