You know who you are. Where'd you go? We were right HERE, fighting the good fight, when all polls said we were wrong, when you liked nothing better than throwing those polls, brought on by lies from your favorite president in our faces, we were HERE, insisting we'd been shown nothing that justified this war before it began and you told us to shut up. Where are you now? You know who you are.
8 Justifications for War by StupidMoniker (These are not ordered by importance) 1. Saddam Hussein was a threat to stability in the Middle East, and therefor to the global economy due to the importance of MidEast oil. See the wars against Iran and Kuwait. 2. The Baath regime in Iraq was known to posses WMD at some point in time. Evidence of the destructon of those weapons was not provided to our satisfaction. 3. The Baath ragime would torture, rape, and kill political dissidents. This means that change from within was unlikely, and probably doomed to failure in light of the aftermath of GW I. 4. Saddam is a known supporter of terrorism. He provides 5 digit payoffs to the families of suicide bombers in Palestine. That is a big no-no. 5. Saddam and his underlings were responsible for the deaths of over 600,000 Iraqis by chemical weapon attack and starvation/disease. Far less than 10,000 Iraqis died as a result of our attack, and far less than 1,000 American's. It is likely that more Iraqis would have died of starvation this year than died in the attack. Most of the people who died in the war were professional soldiers, people who signed on knowing that combat was a possibility, and in fact the purpose of their employment. 6. British sources continue (according to the last thing I saw) to assert that Saddam was trying to aquire fissable materials from Africa. This tends to make one consider the possibility that he is trying to continue his nuclear programs. 7. Permanent bases in Iraq will allow us to leave the Holy Land. This was the #1 complaint of al Queda and should either end that threat, or show the rest of the Arab Muslim world that they are full of ****. 8. According to the cease fire agreement at the end of GW I, Saddam was supposed to fully cooperate with inspectors. At some point following this agreement and the ceasefire that resulted, Saddam booted the inspectors. This rendered the CFA void and technically reopened hostilities from the first war. BTW, does replying to this thread mean that I subconsciously consider myself a coward?
Hey, Batman...how's it going? How's the big move? Have you determined where you're going yet? Hope it works out for you.
Ex-skuuuuuuse me?!! The WMD is there....psssst! We haven't checked the riverbeds yet! The drones are there too. Haven't found them yet but we're close. Iraqis continue resisting because, well, they don't know they have been liberated.
giddyup, Freak, bama, Moniker: Wasn't talking bout you guys. You've been here plenty lately. Was talking bout the ones who were here all day, every day talking sef-satisfied arrogant smack until the tide started turning and then immediately disappeared. I'd call it cowardice. I did. Moniker: Nice list, but as MacBeth and FB have been saying (to silence) for days, it's missing that one reason for going that Bush said, if resolved, would avert war. Why is it missing that one again? Oh yeah, that's right... Buck: Email or post when ready. I'm game. Max: Things are well with me, thanks. Miss you and Ref being around here more. He's supposed to drink with me too. If that happens, you should come along.
Batman, this is nothing but sour grapes from you. You continue to be jealous of the high regard in which the Republican party's leadership qualities are held. The war in Iraq was one of the most overwhelming military victories in the history of man. Iraq, once ruled by a totalitarian, human-rights violating, women-oppressing state is now on the road to Democracy. It won't happen in a matter of weeks, as you foolishly expect, but rather over the long term. Democracy will help bring stability to the region in time. This will greatly reduce the threat that radical Islam poses to the civilized world. We should thank the men and women who fought hard to make this happen -- and the leaders who had the courage to stand up for what is right, even in the face of severe criticism. The liberal left proved that their extremist opinions and their voice were meaningless in this debate over foreign policy. Americans recognize this. This frustration is now manifesting itself through your pleas for attention and desparate attempts to point out failures of our servicemen and women. It is rare that you ever focus on the positive impacts that the US foreign policy brings. Everything is negative with you. Your epiphany will finally come, once you realize that the political mindset that you represent plays absolutely no role in how the US is governed. Enjoy the next 5 years of W, and enjoy spouting off your empty complaints over this period of time. No one is listening.
I think you may mean the anti-war folks when you said liberal left. I just wanted to make it clear that people from both sides of the spectrum were against the war, as well as for it. But for those that wanted to examine the evidence longer, now seem to have been the ones who looking at things with a calm, cool head. Those that wanted to try other options or use a different time table in regards to Iraq are the ones that now look like they knew what they were doing.
Great to have you back, Jorge. I thought maybe calling you a coward would lure you out of your foxhole. Glad to see it worked. I've missed you. Copied a few of the more ridiculous things you said so I could give them the reply they deserve, which, of course, is not much of one. I was never jealous. I was embarassed to live in a country where the people were so easily led around by the nose. I am happy to report this is changing and changing fast. Check the polls. Masterful hyperbole from our resident master of hyperbole. We did use an inordinate number of bullets and bombs, but considering they didn't have much with which to fight back, I don't think this ranks as an historic battle. Maybe if they'd used all those chem, bio, nuke weapons they supposedly had and we'd still kicked their asses it would. Same thing if they'd suited up Satan to throw fireballs at us, but none of those things happened. As such, it was a lot like our first war there -- us shooting, them running away. An historic victory, indeed. When it doubt, put words in the other guys' mouths. Love it when you do that. Please tell me when and where I am on record "foolishly expecting" democracy in Iraq in a matter of weeks. It was actually the Bush administration who, after repeatedly dodging the question of how long we'd be there, finally publically underestimated how long we'd be there. That was a while after Bush's line about being there as long as it took and not a day longer, which members of his own party are now saying is a crap statement that needs to be replaced with some actual leveling with the American people about the cost of this war in dollars, blood and service hours. Keep propping the myth that Saddam belonged to radical Islam. You'd do better to stick to how he was a tyrant, which is actually true, but the truth and you are obviously not on friendly terms. The idea that we have cowed radicals with the Iraq action is no longer in vogue. Find a new take. Severe criticism existed on this board (and others like it), in Dean's stump speeches and precious few other places in America. (The eighty percent or so of the world which harshly criticized the war is another story, but then we don't care what the world thinks anymore right, Jorge? So I won't go there now. There are other holes to poke.) There was virtually no criticism from Democratic Party officials -- a fact that is a little bit more bearable since we now know they were operating with bogus intelligence presented them by the White House. There never was a debate. Every time you say there was you look a little sillier. See: every poll in the last year. Note the trends. And, among myriad other bad trends for you guys, note that the American people are now evenly split on whether or not this war was worth the cost. Oh, shut up. The service people are more frustrated about this than I am. They, many of them reservists, actually have to be there for who knows how many years to support an action they no longer understand and which, through the fault of this administration, is losing support rapidly. But what you really need to shut the hell up about is saying I characterized anything done by people in the service as a failure. You KNOW I never did that, you KNOW I've never criticized them. You are LYING to suggest I did and it is a small tactic from a small man. You may not be listening, but that's probably because you've got bananas in your ears. Others are, finally, and that's why you see a precipitous drop for American support of the president and his various failed policies. Thanks for playing, rookie. It's great to have you back.
Quite an emotional response Batman, apparently I must have touched your "jealous and frustrated" nerve. So sorry. Ok, so if I'm understanding your emotional rant correctly: 1. Other countries should dictate US foreign policy 2. The concept of a war time president's poll numbers falling back to the average is something you have no familiarity with 3. You are only able to focus on a poll's trends as opposed to the current state of opinion 4. You choose to belittle the efforts of our servicemen and their leadership by stating that their opponent wasn't strong. 5. You do not believe there exist pockets of radical Islam in Iraq 6. You think I'm a 'small man', even though I am physically much larger than you Your emotions continue to cloud your judgment.
Cool, Jorge! Keep em coming. I'm not being sarcastic when I say I've missed you and all your easy tricks. When in doubt, go personal. I'm too emotional. You love that one. 1. Never said that (but you know that, you big stinker!). Have said though that world opinion matters. I know your guys disagree with that idea, but most people in America don't. And most of us, especially those ones of us who don't like seeing our tax dollars wasted, sure wouldn't mind having someone else help out with the now-doubled monthly cost of the war, which is, of course, coming straight out of American pockets. 2. It's not just his numbers dropping. There's been a severe shift in support for his Iraq policy. You loved citing these polls when they favored your position! What happened, sweetheart? 3. See above. 4. You're either incredibly dense or a liar. I won't venture a guess. Too close to call. 5. We're down to pockets now, are we? How many more countries we gotta bomb based on this new standard? 6. Well, I don't wanna think it, chiefie. You just keep making me. Gotta go take my Prozac now, you know. Without it I'm just a mess! Thanks again for the good times.
These are the depths to which you now must stoop. You are reduced to relying on *trends* of polls, not the actual poll itself, but the trend of the poll, to support your far-flung position that America's foreign policy in Iraq has been a complete disaster. To imply, as you did, that radical Islam is not a threat to national security is to ignore the tragedy of 9/11. Political loss after political loss has left you grasping for anything you can find. You call me a small man, say I look silly, call me a liar, call me dense, then accuse me of turning this personal? Sigh. I have *clearly* won this argument, as you have turned to your only alternative, the personal attack, so somehow save yourself from the humiliation of having your superficial, baseless argument exposed for all to see.
I am just tired of all the whinning and b****ing about the President. Nothing has been proven by any of the articles that have posted, it is just pissing and moaning, and I don't feel it necessary to respond to every half hearted effort of "I told ya so". They are still looking for WMD, I still believe they will find them, or a program that was still running for Saddam. I also still believe that getting rid of Saddam and getting a democracy started in the Middle East was a great move towards global stabilization, and no amount of bellyaching is going to change my mind. Talk to me in 10 years and we shall see who was right. DD
Hillarious P.S., I'm not trying to call you out individually on this DaDa. I just find it funny that some in the adminstration are saying program, when Rummy was telling us before the war he knew where the weapons were.
Pgabrial, I get ya, I just think that you can never totally trust what the government says, and I had made up my mind that taking out Saddam was good for the world, as well as the USA. Whether or not he had a current WMD program is irrelevant in my mind...the guy had to go...as I believe in the future he would have worked with terrorists against us. After 9-11, I think that we should stop treating all governments equally, specifically, the non democratically elected ones. I firmly believe that we have to take a tougher stand against rogue nations who threaten our way of life. Therefore, I have no problem with the administration emphasizing points about WMD to generate popular opinion. Just my .02 DD
