both are great but Bagwell is better. only first basemen ever with a 30/30 season, and he did it twice, and they were actually 40/30 seasons. i'm fairly sure he's the only 1B w/ 200 career steals. he either has or is very close to 1500 runs and rbis. his obp is over .400. and he played gold-glove caliber defense at first until his shoulder went to crap. biggio has tons of great numbers as well, but i can't see how he would be put over bagwell. not that comparisons are done this way, but since it was sorta brought up, bagwell would've been a better leadoff man than biggio would've been a power hitter, imo. as for where bags is on the all-time 1B list, i can't say i've got all of baseball history down, but Puedlfor seems to, and i think he's said bagwell is possibly the best 1B in NL history and, at the risk of misquoting him, i think top 5 in all of the ML.
When I think Bagwell/Biggio, I think of them as a combination. Biggio's ability to turn the double play so well depended greatly on Bagwell's ability to dig throws out of the dirt. Bagwell's RBI numbers were greatly boosted by having one of the greatest leadoff men ever in front of him. They were the ultimate teammates and professionals and defined this franchise for more than a decade. I really hope when they get inducted into the hall, and I believe they both will, that they go in together, sharing one more day in the sun, because that's how I will always remember them both.
This question just isn't fair. I took Bagwell because he has been an MVP, but I am happy that we have had both for their entire major league careers so far.
As Elaine says, that's where they put all the guys who can't play. Seriously, I don't think that's gonna help Bagwell as much as some would argue on this board. Bagwell's one of the top first basemen in history because A) he's a great first basement, but B) there aren't many great first basemen.
Around The Horn asked if Biggio was a HOF canidate. Mariotti and Stat Boy think he isn't. Paige thought he was. Jay did say that he thought Bagwell would get in because they would only take one of them.
Nick, I respect your opinion and your knowledge, but I just don't see the media picking Baggy as a first-balloter. There are people questioning whether he deserves to be a hall-of-famer, let alone a first-balloter, in the media. I agree that he should be a first-balloter (pretty damn good all-around player...not quite 5 tool, but as a 1B, pretty much all you could ask for), but I dont know if the voters will take all that into account. BTW, I didn't vote on this thread, there's no both option
In this Thread someone(s) was (were) talking about PTI's opinion yada yada, and while I don't think those guys are relevant the fact of modern life is that ESPN is making the rules, making the calls. I suspect 'they'll' ultimately determine his (their) HoF credentials.
The only main ESPNer who votes for the HOF is Peter Gammons (a HUGE Bagwell guy... he was a former Red Sox, after all). Bob Ryan probably has a vote as well (he's a big bagwell and biggio fan)... and maybe Kornheiser... but that's it. Who cares about what the Woody Paige's, Stat boy's, and Jay Marrioti's think...
Paul Molitor and Eddie Murray played long enough, thanks to the DH, to amass the career numbers neccessary for the HOF. Edgar Martinez and Frank Thomas likely get in as well.
It is so tough to choose between them. I'm going with Bagwell narrowly but I think they both deserve it. They've played together so long and more than likely will both retire as Stros that it would be the fitting if they both went to the HOF at the same time. I don't think it would happen but that would be perfect. Killer BBBBB'S!!!!
I would like it noted even though I posted what they said on Around the Horn, I don't care what they think and don't agree with them. Biggio and Bagwell will both make the HOF. Biggio will get to 3,000 as he said he would try on PTI today.
As of right now and the past few years Biggio has always been and still is very consitant. Bagwell was great until he started getting hurt and i would have put him ahead of Biggio at their primes but lately Biggio looks like he can still play a couple more years with the way he is still hitting and fielding right now.
he;s doing well. BUT - I'd like to see him sit at least twice/week, and sit out late innings of blow-outs.
Resting him is not a bad idea but honestly he is still hitting better than anyone on the bench we have that can be put in place of him. Burke is just now slowly coming around from a crappy start. Hopefully he will pick it up a bit and we will see him rest. Unfortunatnly he is one of the only catalysts on this team that we have right now.
