Seeing how both players are closing in on the Hall of Fame careers, I thought I'd poll the board to see who ya'll think the better player has been. Who would you rather have had? My Pick is Biggio. The guy is an awesome player.
To me, Craig Biggio will always embody the Houston Astros. As far as I'm concerned, he's the Stros' version of Rudy T.
That's fine... but Rudy T wasn't the greatest Rocket of all-time. I'd say Bagwell = Calvin Murphy/Hakeem (without the championships)... a for-sure first-ballot HOFer. Biggio will eventually make the HOF, but I have a feeling that he may not get in the first try due to the other players he'll be competing against who are eligible that year.
man, i don't know. i could make great arguments for both. they're just so different. asked to do such different things.
Biggio, IMO, for 2 reasons: 1: It is much harder to be a successful lead-off man than it is to be a successful HR, RBI man. 2: Biggio has played 4 different positions for us, and at two of those positions, C and 2B, he played at an all-star level for us.
Bagwell. He's the one who changed the fortune of the franchise. But I believe Mike Scott had the greatest season of any player.
HOFer yes. For sure 1st rounder? (Regrettably) NO. Bigg may actually get in more quickly as he is more mediacentric. Both should, and likely will, get Cooperstown tickets.
actually, i disagree. the fortune of the franchise...the entire franchise...changed, as I see it, when Biggio took LESS money to stay here than depart for Colorado or St. Louis. that's when everything started to change for this franchise. when it become a consistent contender. it was the first time in a long time they kept a key free agent. and biggio dedicated himself to the franchise. please understand...i'm not diminishing bagwell! i love the guy!!
cause biggio could hit 40 homeruns and 100 + rbis anytime he wanted to? both did their job well and if asked to reverse their roles they wouldn't be half as successful. i voted bagwell but just by a fraction.
I think this is pretty much where I stand. In a straight comparison, Bagwell is easily the better player. But when considering positional scarcity, Biggio may actually come out with the upper hand. I can quite confidently say that Biggio is one of the 10 best 2B of all-time, but I'm not sure you can say that for Bagwell and 1B. Both should be first-ballot HOF'ers, but I would guess that neither of them get in on the first try.
I didn't think Bagwell would be a for sure lock either (unless he got 500 HR's)... until I heard several different discussions about his career numbers after he underwent surgery (since it was doubtful he would ever come back). Despite not making it to 500 HR's, he will be a lock for all of the following reasons, and then some: 1.) He will finish with 1500 RBI’s, over 2200 hits, an MVP, and nearly 500 homers and doubles.... but actually, the most impressive of all his stats is that he had nearly a lifetime .300 batting average as a big-time slugging first-baseman. Additionally, they will take into account that he played 3/4ths of his career in one of the worst hitting parks of the modern-day era. 2.) He's one of only 6 players EVER to slug .750 or more for a season (it was the strike-shortened MVP one... but he was on a ridiculous ridiculous pace that only Bonds and Big Mac have matched since). 3.) Look at his peers... you have Frank Thomas and Rafael Palmeiro... the other power hitting 1B of his generation. While both of them will likely end up with better career numbers, neither of them holds any place of prominence amongst the media (voters) because they either moved from team to team never winning the big one (Palmeiro), or they simply were a disruptful/media hating/walking wounded/questionable work ethic player who eventually played more games at DH than 1B (Thomas). 4.) He was the leader (or co-leader) of his one and only franchise for over 14 years... and his knock of never coming through in the post-season was relieved by his performance in last year's magical run. I honestly believe the performance of the 2004 Astros in the playoffs did a lot to rectify the nation's views of Bagwell (and Biggio) as being nothing but playoff chokers. 5.) He also owns a career OBP over .400 and a lifetime SLG of .542. Despite winning just one Gold Glove, he's been a fine defensive player and a smart, underrated basestealer with over 200 SBs.... as a first baseman! And in the end, all of the voters know this guy as a hard working, make no excuses, play through pain, humble, never controversial, never had any major problem off the field (a model "baseball" citizen), never had an event that signifcantly blemished his career... his image, honestly couldn't be any better. (especially when you consider some of the antics of Sosa, Griffey, and McGwire... who will all get in on numbers alone... Bagwell has them all beat in the image department).
I hope your assessment proves out. But, memories are short and five years is forever. Bags was (is?) an excellent MLer, but never 'sexy', never the flavor of the day, even with an MVP. Who else might be in his HoF 'class'? If no one else is up for a ballot his 1st time then maybe he slips in quickly.
Some players only get noticed after they leave the field. Bagwell is definitely one of them. He never played in a huge media market, and was largely ignored when it came to endorsements... as you said, he was never 'sexy'. But, the baseball HOF doesn't care about 'sexy'... frankly, 'sexy' could only hurt a player by making him appear better than his actual career numbers. As I said before, I was very suprised to hear where he stands with some of the greatest players all-time in terms of career OPS, career slugging, and his overall batting ranks as first baseman. He never got the credit he deserved while he was (and still is) a player... but once he's stepped away from the game, the media has begun to take notice.
