<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Lance Berkman is a volunteer ass't coach4 2nd Baptist baseball:"I'm getting my feet wet Nthe coaching profession&seeing what its all about"</p>— Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26) <a href="https://twitter.com/MarkBermanFox26/statuses/429438091648962560">February 1, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Lance Berkman on Hall of Fame: "Anytime anybody mentions your name in association w/that it's a high honor. If they continue to trend(more)</p>— Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26) <a href="https://twitter.com/MarkBermanFox26/statuses/429440214960840705">February 1, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>More Lance Berkman on Hall of Fame: "more toward the OPS..I would stack up pretty favorably with some guys that are already in there (more)</p>— Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26) <a href="https://twitter.com/MarkBermanFox26/statuses/429440444427030529">February 1, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>More LanceBerkman on Hall of Fame: "I'm certainly not looking 2get N N the 1st 10ballots,but maybe 20 years from now I might sneak N there"</p>— Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26) <a href="https://twitter.com/MarkBermanFox26/statuses/429440761323454465">February 1, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Lance Berkman says Craig Biggio,Jeff Bagwell & Roger Clemens belong N the HOF.On Biggio missing by 2votes:"Silly. The man's a Hall of Famer"</p>— Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26) <a href="https://twitter.com/MarkBermanFox26/statuses/429442070650949633">February 1, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>So the Astros are considering honoring Berkman and Oswalt with one-day contracts. Do they retire their numbers, too? 17 and 44.</p>— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) <a href="https://twitter.com/brianmctaggart/statuses/433267843136638976">February 11, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Berkman is no question. Houston area Native. Seems to truly care about the Astros and the city. Was a HOF-caliber hitter for a decade. Oswalt is more questionable. I wouldn't retire his number. If he spent his post-playing days as a big part of the Astros organization like Dierker did, then it would make more sense.
But as far as all-time ranks within the Astros organization, Oswalt ranks just as good (if not better) in the pitching credentials than Berkman does in the hitting credentials. Oswalt: Wins - 2nd (one behind Niekro) Innings pitched - 3rd Strikeouts - 2nd (behind Nolan) Games started - 3rd Career WAR - 1st (this one clinches it for me... #1 by far) 2005 LCS MVP Top 5 Cy Young voting - 5 times Berkman: Batting average - 4th OPS - 2nd (behind Alou, who surprisingly has enough AB's to rank as #1 all-time) Runs scored - 3rd Hits - 5th Doubles - 3rd RBI - 3rd HR's - 2nd Career WAR - 5th Top 5 MVP voting - 4 times To me, Oswalt appears more to be the greatest Astros pitcher ever (or at least a close second to Ryan) vs. Berkman appears to be the greatest Astros hitter ever. Both showed up in the post-season. Both had strong desires to play their entire careers in Houston (till the team started to go belly-up). I think they both end up with numbers retired. Also, you pretty much knew Roy was not going to stick around just to make appearances or collect a check after he was done with baseball... he made that known back when he was in his prime and said he'd likely only play 10 years (he did try to stretch that out, but his body got the best of him eventually). Don't see why that should be held against him... or on the flip-side, why that would increase the chances of a player getting his number retired if you're basing it on what he did as a player in the organization.
Retiring Berkman's and Oswalt's numbers would vault the Astros into second place with 11 jersey's retired. Only the Yankees would have more - 16. Currently the Cardinals and Dodgers have 10.
Yeah... its too late. they've already set the low standards for what it would take to get your jersey retired. Basically, if you're a top 3 Astros pitcher of a certain era, or a top 3 Astros hitter of a certain era, you're getting consideration. Guys I would have never retired include Wilson, Umbricht, Dierker, Cruz, Scott, and Wynn. Of course, this is what happens when a relatively young franchise, with little long-term history, starts rewarding the best players that ever played for them. It would be like the Texans having already made plans to retire Schaub's jersey because he leads them in all passing stats. If we hold them to the highest of high standards, Biggio/Bagwell for sure... then maybe Berkman/Ryan/Oswalt in that order.
There are plenty of lifetime Yankees/Cardinals who don't get their number retired just because they've been with the club. I feel if you're retiring a number... it should be because of what you did on the field, and no other player should get the honor of wearing that number for the organization because of it. Anything else (i.e. - lifetime loyalty/organizational longevity) can be honored by statues, plaques, etc. Ultimately, I understand why they did it with Dierker... but the fact that they only did it in 2002 shows it was more for organizational longevity than it was for playing achievements.
Going strictly be on-field performance, everyone but Biggio and Bagwell (and #42 of course). You can make a pretty good case for Ryan and Cruz if you include their popularity and iconic status locally.
Okay, so calling New Braunfels Houston area is a bit of a stretch, but still closest baseball city. The 2 greatest Astros of all-time are hitters (and likely HOFers). The same can't be said for the pitchers. I'm not holding not being with the Astros in retirement against Roy. It is just that in Dierker's case, it is his Astros career as a whole that led to his number being retired, not just his playing career. Umbricht is the one that absolutely makes no sense. I'm surprised you don't think Jimmy Wynn deserved it.
I'm in the same boat. Biggio and Bagwell absolutely, plus Robinson. Ryan and Cruz are the only others I'd consider.
Scott's questionable to me, too - but he was so singularly fantastic in 1986, it's hard for me to objectively evaluate him. It is the greatest single-season by an Astro player in their history - and by wide margin given where his performance took the team. But on Cruz and Wynn... I worked with both guys last year, doing a pretty deep dive on their Astro careers - and it resulted in some wonderful personal interactions with them, so I admit some bias - but I think they're both significantly underrated. If we were a better franchise, maybe those guys slip into obscurity. But we’re not and I think they’re among the 5 or 7 best players in franchise history. Cruz had a 125 OPS+ for his Astros career, including some insanely good seasons ('78, '83-'84). He finished his Astro career ranked 1st with 80 triples; 3rd with 1,879 games played, 6,629 at-bats, and 1,937 hits; 4th with 942 RBIs; 5th with 871 runs scored and 335 doubles; 6th with a .292 batting average; and 8th with 138 home runs. He led the team in RBIs seven times (1978-1981, 1983-1985); batting average four times (1978, 1983-1985); and home runs three times (1979, 1981 and 1984). Again, for a franchise that hasn’t been good, or had an abundance of great players, I think he’s comfortably in the discussion. And while on-field performance should dictate retired numbers, his "Cruuuuuz" chant and inclusion on every single postseason team in franchise history, I think, are the type of cool anecdotes that push him over. Wynn, on the other hand… he’s a no-brainer, IMO. And a guy people need to discover because… man, was he good in an era that never appreciated how good he was. - Led the team in home runs for six consecutive seasons (1965-1970), and finished among the top 10 in the National League in 1967 (2nd), 1968 (6th), 1969 (5th), and 1972 (10th). Led the team in slugging percentage five times (1965, 1967-1970); on-base percentage (1968-1970, 1972) and OPS (1965, 1968-1970) four times; and RBIs twice (1965 and 1967). His single-season records for home runs, RBIs, runs and walks stood a combined 90 years. - His 131 OPS+ as an Astro matches Hall Famers Rod Carew and Wade Boggs while besting Hall of Famers Roberto Clemente (130) and Eddie Murray (129), among others. - Hit 93 home runs inside the Astrodome during his Astro career; four more after leaving the team in 1974. Altogether, his 97 indoor home runs were the most in baseball history until 1988. - His 8.5 offensive WAR in 1969 is an Astro single season record. - First player to hit 30 HRs and total 100 RsBI for the franchise (both in 1967) (IIRC, he was the second Astros player to score 100 runs in a single season) - Reached base (by hit, walk, error and/or hit-by-pitch) in a team-record 66 consecutive games in 1969, the sixth-longest streak in baseball history. During the stretch, which began May 20 and ended August 3, Wynn hit .305 with a .478 on-base percentage. He would combine for 142 hits/walks (68 hits, 74 walks), blast 17 HRs, and drive in 44 runs. The Astros would win 40 of the 66 games en route to the franchise’s first non-losing season. - Drew a Major League-leading 148 walks in 1969, a National League record that stood for 29 years. He would finish the season with a .436 on-base percentage, the best of his career and the sixth-best single season mark in team history. If we redid the retired numbers… I’d go Bagwell, Biggio, Cruz, Dierker, Ryan (and I could be talked out of including him), Wynn. And then an absolute “yes” to both Berkman and Oswalt.
A lot had to do with him being very popular with the fans and successful as a manager. No doubt 40 years of being with the team meant a lot.
You're dismissing his managerial accomplishments, though - 435 wins (most in team history), a MOY and 4 division titles on top of being a terrific pitcher, terrific announcer and team ambassador... Other than Bagwell and Biggio, he may rank as the most deserving, IMO.
It's too late now, but they could have simply had an "orbit of honor" and leave the numbers for players like Bagwell and Biggio.
