see the pathway to citizenship, which the president supports, as does the senate... and now a democrat controlled house more than likely agrees on. i can't find the senate bill from last may, otherwise i'd link you to it.
This just shows to me that the housing market is nuts. There is way too much credit being handed out. Would you give a loan to someone who might be deported tomorrow? I am curious, are there other types of loans that illegal immigrants are able to get? Like car loans?
hey if only 1.5 percent of them gets deported then this is a calculated risk/reward thing, I am sure all these are factored into the loan when bank issues it.
See a mortgage is backed by the asset (the house itself + land). So even the the guy defaults on his loan and is nowhere to be found, the bank can still technically be able to recover the loan amount by seizing the house, unlike a car you can't take the house with you. So being deported or going to jail is just one of many factors the bank considers when a loan is issued, all that is build into the default models they have.
who's talking non-citizens voting? your original post was: certainly when they become a citizen then they won't be non-citizens voting.... but i doubt they're voting now. i doubt they care to vote, and i doubt they even care to be citizens in the first place. i have no way to prove this, but i bet the population of illegals that truly wishes to become legal is probably some small minute number like 1.67% i also would assume that 1.67% is exactly the number of people who will go through this process to become legal which is stupid in the first place. lets see: you are here, working, have a house or apartment, making decent money and able to send it back to your family. your only risk is the occasional inquiry as to your legal status. you don't have a social security number, but you do have a fake social security card, which means your employer will look the other way. you can go get free health care by giving false information and never having to think twice about the bill. now congress and the president pass the same law for the 7th time. which says. go to a point of entry (NY, CA, TX, AZ [hassle #1]), pay your back taxes (hassle #2), wait several more years, take a proficiency test and prove you're trying to learn english (hassle #3)... then we'll make you legal. tell me. who's going to go through all of that?
pshh they already get it here, in texas... and i thought you yankees were sophisticated then again, california continues trying to give them drivers licenses... maybe in hopes that they'll purchase insurance, but if i were a gambler, i'd put money that they will continue to drive unlicensed and uninsured.
The original question was why is advantageous for someone to immigrate legally. 1. Voting was one of my reasons. It can lead to citizenship and voting. They should want to vote because that gives them a say in who is governing them, and what issues will be given attention and priority. 2.The free healthcare thing is a bit of red herring. They can go to an emergency room, or some free clinics. They can't get preventive health care, subscription benefits(most likely - dependin on job and income and how they got it, etc) The legal immigrant process should be changed so that it isn't so difficult, wasteful, and time consuming. There are certainly many advantages to being legal.
i misunderstood, and do agree with this point. i agree it is probably difficult, and requires reform... but we can't have an open door policy. not because of terrorism, that's a stupid idea that gets thrown about. but because of the point of diminishing returns. meaning, at what point does our population expand to which the quality of life is lowered? when or where do we grow to a point that we either don't have enough employment opportunities, or enough water/food supply? overcrowding is already an issue in many places, pollution, the roads are filled to a point where once they're built they're already congested. america the beautiful: O beautiful for spacious skies, For amber waves of grain, For purple mountain majesties Above the fruited plain! that picture is quickly becoming america the asphalted land. which is a whole different topic, but the more people we allow in, the quicker we reach that destination.
There are still plenty of fruited plains. Most of the growth is happening in and around current population centers.
I say open the borders as long as immigrants come through a customs gate to inhibit smuggling. However, actively and strictly enforce penalties on U.S. businesses for hiring or housing illegals -- i.e., a $10,000 fine on businesses and housing (apartments etc) owners for each instance where local, state or federal officials find a non-U.S. citizen working or living without proper work credentials.
The US is one of those rare countries where we aren't taxed for land. The majority of the people in China live on a slip of land the size of the Eastern seaboard. We have several rivers that aren't shared with other countries, and coal reserves that can last for centuries. Another gift America can offer is class mobility. A lot of Americans who can't find work or don't like their location can move to another city or state. Overcrowding is usually felt when infrastructure is taxed not because people are pressed for space. The issue for quality of life is very subjective. If you mean economically, then we should support immigration because they're a part of our workforce. With education and stable healthcare, they can integrate quicker. Competition from China or India might make it look like immigration will drain our resources in the coming battles, but their advantage is in numbers, so we need all the people we can get. The question is whether immigrants are trained in the neccessary skills or if they're flipping burgers. The other issue is whether our cultural identity will shift to a more Latin personality. America has had waves of immigrants before. In fact, the percentage of the Hispanic wave in proportion to our population is very similar to the Italian and Irish waves in the 1800s. It has been done before. There are second generation Hispanics who don't speak Spanish. But who knows whether they'll be fully integrated with their peers. It might not be their choice. The thought of the United States becoming Latinized does worry me. I don't believe the charges that US will become a third world country because of immigrants. It's more of a question of habit and how things are instead of a rational worry. But I will still support opening the doors for all immigration because that is one of our country's founding principles. If we consider all illegals criminals, then the real criminals among them win by being able to move easier. Without growth and change, the United States will definitely stagnate. Our colleges owe their prosperity to immigrants. The tech industry is the same. If we foster the spirit of liberty and freedom, then it'll be harder for all immigrants to fragment into their own enclaves. On the other hand, if we sweep illegals under the rug, we'd have to redouble our resources to keep appearances while the problem persists. Our rejection is ultimately our loss.
Little To Stop Illegal Aliens From Voting Christina Bellantoni, Washington Times, Sep. 24 U.S. citizens who go to the polls Nov. 2 to decide local, state and national elections are likely to get more help from noncitizens this year than ever before. Beyond requiring applicants to sign a pledge on voter-registration forms affirming that they are U.S. citizens, there is no way to prevent the nation’s estimated 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens from casting ballots in November, area elections officials said. Locally, only Virginia requires voters to provide their Social Security numbers, but the state does not require voters to show their Social Security cards. “There is no way of checking,” said Maryland State Board of Elections Administrator Linda H. Lamone. “We have no way of doing that. We have no access to any information about who is in the United States legally or otherwise.” Nationally, immigration experts said it is likely that illegal immigrants vote, but that only a small percentage does so. “Evidence suggests very few illegal aliens vote, but it’s certainly not zero,” said Steven Camarota, director of research at the D.C.-based Center for Immigration Studies. “Illegal aliens don’t come to America to vote, and would generally try to avoid doing so.” Today, there are roughly 8 million illegal aliens in the United States who are of voting age, he said. Mr. Camarota said more legal immigrants who are not citizens might be voting illegally. “The whole system isn’t well-guarded,” he said. “There’s no system in place to really prevent illegal aliens from voting or even to deter them from voting.” Six Maryland municipalities—Chevy Chase, Takoma Park, Garrett Park, Barnesville, Martin’s Additions and Somerset—allow noncitizens to vote only in local elections. However, in state and national elections, voters must meet the state standards for voter registration. Given the predicted close election this year and the 2000 election that was decided by a small number of votes, Mr. Camarota said even the few aliens who do vote could make a difference in the results. Only first-time voters are required to provide photo identification in Virginia and the District. No jurisdiction requires voters to show proof of citizenship at the polls. No federal agency keeps records of which undocumented immigrants are in the country, Mrs. Lamone said. Maryland does ensure, through an extensive process of cross-database checks and balances, that there are no deceased persons or felons on its voter rolls. Barbara Cockrell, assistant secretary of the Virginia State Board of Elections, said the state has a computerized voter-registration system that uses Social Security numbers as unique identifiers. The state constitution requires that voters provide their numbers, which she said are kept private. Miss Cockrell said asking on the registration forms whether applicants are citizens provides the needed safeguards. “They take an oath under penalty of perjury,” she said. “After the first time, we don’t ask them to bring ID.” Bill O’Field, a spokesman for the D.C. Board of Elections and Ethics, said the penalty for lying on the voter-registration form is a maximum five-year prison sentence or a $10,000 fine. Other than for first-time voters who registered by mail, “there’s no checking of ID,” he said. Dan Stein, president of the D.C.-based Federation for American Immigration Reform, said relaxed voting regulations and the ability to register to vote through the Department of Motor Vehicles allows illegal immigrants to get a form of legitimate identification. “There are huge fraud problems out there,” he said. “There’s no safeguards on it.” He also said those groups pushing voter-registration efforts this year don’t check to see if registrants are citizens. This flaw has the potential to “corrupt” the political system, he said. “Aliens have already shown they are willing to break U.S. law to come here. Why should we expect them to not vote?” Mr. Stein asked. “In a system where virtually no effort is made to ensure integrity, we’d be naive to say it isn’t going on. You only need one vote to swing an election.” Peter Rubin, professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center, said many groups are “interested in suppressing the votes of minorities and using illegal tactics as a way of scaring people from coming out to the polls.” “That has happened in many elections,” he said. “These tactics are real, continue to be used, and are underreported. It should be of concern to everyone, especially now, when everyone’s vote matters.”
