Ankiel's teammates have a better OPS than Lee's and he is having a similar number of base runners/plate appearance (slightly higher than Lee in number, but Lee tends to have slightly higher in scoring position). Ankiel's lack of RBIs vs Lee is mostly attributed to not playing as much as Lee (despite St Louis getting more plate appearances so far), Lee getting more sac flies in similar number of opportunities, and Ankiel choking with runners on base so far (particularly 3rd base <2 outs). Just playing nearly everyday is an underrated talent in baseball for elite players as they tend to do much better than their replacements. Rowand...yeah he's on a bad team. he is getting 15% less base runners, but also is playing 15% (i would guess 3 to 4% of this is due to bad team not turning over the lineup as often) less than Lee.
Where do you find these stats? I've looked for things like that in the past, but had no luck. Yahoo gives you the averages and plate appearance,s but not the # of runners.
Espn....I had to go into Lee and Ankiel's split stats were it divides up batting situations as 1B only, On Second, Bases Loaded, etc and plugged info into excel to calculate base runners/plate appearance the hard way. To check who had runners in better position, I weighted runners position so on runners on third base was 3, second 2, and first 1.
Post that spreadsheet if you can. You can use html table, tr, and td to make it look good. It's not all that time-consuming if you copy the spreadsheet into a text editor then use find and replace.
Ankiel is having a better year at the plate, but alot of his value over Carlos is in the field. Ankiel is putting up hitting numbers while playing a more valuable position well. Carlos on the other hand gives back some of his value on defense.
During the pregame show they announced that Berkman is in 1st place by 12,000 votes in the voting over Pujols and that Tejada is in 2nd.
let's see if this works... For Lee <TABLE> <TR> <TD>By Situation</td> <td>BR/eTPA</td> <td>WBR/eTPA</td> <td>AB</td> <td>H</td> <td>RBI</td> <td>BB</td> <td>HBP</td> <td>AB+BB+HBP (estimate TPA) </td> <td>base runners</td> <td>weighted base runner position</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>None On</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>98</td> <td>23</td> <td>8</td> <td>4</td> <td>1</td> <td>103</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>1B Only</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>36</td> <td>11</td> <td> 1</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>38</td> <td>38</td> <td>38</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>On Second</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>24</td> <td>6</td> <td>6</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td> 29</td> <td> 29</td> <td>58</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>On Third</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td> 0</td> <td>3</td> <td> 3</td> <td>9</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>First and Second</td> <td>2</td> <td>3</td> <td>16</td> <td>4</td> <td> 5</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>18</td> <td>36</td> <td>54</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>First and Third</td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>14</td> <td>8</td> <td>17</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td> 14</td> <td>28</td> <td>56</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>Second and Third</td> <td>2</td> <td>5</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>5</td> <td>10 </td> <td>25</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>Bases Loaded</td> <td> 3</td> <td>6</td> <td>4</td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>12 </td> <td>24</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>Total</td> <td>0.729</td> <td>1.23</td> <td> 200</td> <td> 55</td> <td>45</td> <td>13 </td> <td>1</td> <td>214</td> <td>156</td> <td>264</td> </tr> </table>
For Ankiel <TABLE><TR> <TD>By Situation</td> <td>BR/eTPA</td> <td>WBR/eTPA</td> <td>AB</td> <td>H</td> <td>RBI</td> <td>BB</td> <td>HBP</td> <td>AB+BB+HBP (estimate TPA) </td> <td>base runners</td> <td>weighted base runner position</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>None On </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>77 </td> <td>22 </td> <td>5 </td> <td>9 </td> <td>2 </td> <td>88 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>1B Only </td> <td>1 </td> <td>1 </td> <td>34 </td> <td>11 </td> <td>3 </td> <td>6 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>40 </td> <td>40 </td> <td>40</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>On Second </td> <td>1 </td> <td>2 </td> <td>13 </td> <td>4 </td> <td>7 </td> <td>4 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>17 </td> <td>17 </td> <td>34</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>On Third </td> <td>1 </td> <td>3 </td> <td>7 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>1 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>8 </td> <td>8 </td> <td>24</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>First and Second </td> <td>2 </td> <td>3 </td> <td>23 </td> <td>7 </td> <td>5 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>23 </td> <td>46 </td> <td>69</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>First and Third </td> <td>2 </td> <td>4 </td> <td>4 </td> <td>2 </td> <td>3 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>4 </td> <td>8 </td> <td>16</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>Second and Third </td> <td>2 </td> <td>5 </td> <td>2 </td> <td>1 </td> <td>2 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>2 </td> <td>4 </td> <td>10</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>Bases Loaded </td> <td>3 </td> <td>6 </td> <td>5 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>5 </td> <td>15</td> <td> 30</td> </tr> <TR> <TD>Total</td> <td>0.738</td> <td> 1.19</td> <td> 165</td> <td> 47</td> <td> 25</td> <td> 20 </td> <td>2 </td> <td> 187</td> <td> 143 </td> <td>232</td> </tr></table>
caveat....I'm missing the SFs so my plate appearances are estimated. BR is base runners, WBR is weighted base runner.
To discount RBI and runs scored as meaningless is the same as discounting a pitcher's wins and losses. Yes, OBP and OPS are a more meaningful predictor of future results as a hitter... but the bottom line for an offensive player is driving in (and scoring) runs. And Lee continues to drive in far more runs than Rowand and Ankiel. He's been an RBI machine in his time in Houston, even when the offense struggled last season. You also need to consider other statistics that don't measure in OPS. Such as strikeouts... Lee has struck out 25 times so far, to Rowand's 37 and Ankiel's 35 (despite both having fewer ABs than Lee). He's also stolen 3 bases (zero CS) to zero steals for Rowand (2 CS) and zero for Ankiel (zero CS). When an advantage of 50 OBP is considered a significant advantage for a player (which consists of a whopping 10 more hits or walks in 200 plate appearances), I'd say that 10 fewer strikeouts and 20 more RBI in those same 200 PAs is enough to merit consideration. Believe it or not, there is more to production than OPS. And, consider that this is an All-Star team. Carlos Lee is a 3 time All Star, to 1 for Rowand and 0 for Ankiel; he's a bigger star in baseball. He's also got a higher career OPS+ than either Rowand or Ankiel, so he has a better track record of success based on that somewhat limited metric as well.
Interesting that nobody has really mentioned the difference in defense. Probably one of the easier reasons to argue that Carlos is behind those guys as of now.
If you want to say Ankiel is a better player due to defense this year, that argument has merit. I disagree that he's been a better hitter.
That's a good analysis Joe Joe, and I would definitely reverse my position on Ankiel vs. Lee because of it. But the discussion kind of proves my point - you have to make a concerted effort to present a case for Lee being better than Ankiel, and Ankiel is not even a Top 10 outfielder in the NL this season IMO. There's no way that Lee should be anything more than an afterthought as an All-Star.
