Same impact? Artest is better than Ariza who is better than Lee. I can't wait to see who we trade Lee for -- maybe Joe Alexander?
Artest was a clubhouse cancer, Ariza would not have liked a lessor role, Lee is still finding his place. All of those moves made the team better and saved it money. DD
Once Lee gets it going, he is going to be fine. He's a smarter, more efficient player than Ariza. Time will prove it out.
Yeah, Artest was such a clubhouse cancer that he led us to the second round of the playoffs and to seven games vs. the team that won the championship. We should pass out cigarettes in the Rockets locker room -- we need more guys who are cancerous. Ariza would not have liked a lessor role.. he was the STARTING SF. You said last week he would go from the starting five to being the THIRD SF.. you are clearly going senile in your old age. The only move that saved the team money was Ariza-Lee. None of the moves have made us a better team. I hope so. I like Lee a lot -- but he's playing 18 minutes a game. I probably mention that in every thread I post in.. it drives me absolutely insane.
Yao led that team, Artest was a role player, which is what he is in LA too....and he is declining fast.....when you are searching for an identity (something you are talking about) the last thing you want is a guy that thinks he is the best player when he really isn't..... The team wanted to clear room for Bud, and knew that Shane's contract was expiring, they got out from under the Albatross like contract that they gave to a guy who could not dribble nor shoot.....he is again...a decent role player when there is an established heirarchy (you seeing a pattern here?) Now how do you know that? We are what? 9 games into the season....I guess we shall see, eh? DD
Yao led a lot of teams to a first round exit before then. It wasn't until Artest joined our team did we have the toughness and defense to move on in the playoffs. No, he wasn't the best player -- but he was one of the most important. I don't think you'll find many people backing up your claim that Ariza had the same impact or better as Artest. You're talking out your butt again. Morey's statement on the trade was that he did it for Courtney Lee, not to clear room for Budinger. According to the stats and your comment, Morey has successfully cleared 1.3 more minutes for Budinger to play this year -- obviously crucial to his development.
Artest was terrible in the playoffs, he was decent on D, but was too heavy, he was at best a role player. He did have one decent game against Portland but overall he was a non factor. It is crap like this that start arguments, and degrade the GARM, it is not necessary nor prudent of you. Actually Morey said that on the radio right after the trade, numerous times, others can back me up, but he said that one of the reasons for the trade was much like the Rafer trade was to clear room for AB, the Ariza trade was to clear playing time for CBud. Believe what you want......but that is the truth. DD
1.3 Minutes -- that's the only truth. Opening up a spot may have been a side consequence, but it was not the main reason they pulled the trigger. How are you opening up a spot for someone when you're trading for a backup SG who will take what minutes Ariza played? As they say, the proof is in the pudding. +1.3 minutes more a game does not point to the Rockets dealing Ariza to "free" Chase. And now, for your moment of zen: http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/daryl_morey_discusses_the_cour_2010_08_11.html
You do realize that they have only played 9 games, and there is an extra body in the rotation in Lee this year, right And Morey gave several interviews......go look up some of the recaps on 610 etc....they cleared room for Cbud to play just like the Rafer trade. Believe it or not, it is the truth. DD
I just don't understand your logic. You're telling me that they cleared room for Budinger and yet at the same time telling me he hasn't had a significant minute increase because there is an extra body in the guard's rotation. The two don't really go together -- do you not see this? If he's not getting more minutes because of CLee, then they did NOT deal Ariza to give Budinger more minutes. I'm surprised at you getting hung up about what Morey said in passing. You were the first one to call horsebull on him saying that we're paying the tax, now you're taking his word as gospel. The question could have easily been, "Will this give Chase an opportunity to see more playing time?" -- "Sure, it removes a SF and adds a SG". But to recap, we started with: And now we realize: a. Only one of the two moves saved the Rockets money. b. So far, neither move has made the Rockets a better team. This is what I mean when I say you talk out of your butt -- you say things as fact without any evidence or thought to back it up. Maybe I'm just a stickler for details and get on you for your exaggerations.. but I like having honest debates about the facts/realities of the situations. You usually go wide to one side of the argument and I have to drag you back to the reality that is more towards the middle.
It is what it is, I don't know why CBud hasn't had a significant increase yet, but it is only 9 games, so maybe they were taking into consideration the duration of Ariza's contract. Morey's job is to think longer term, you are taking very small samples and trying to formulate an argument, it is not really making much sense. So far it is only 9 games, and I think having more cap room is a form of making the team better. Ariza sucked, and had a big contract, we are better off as a team with Lee....Artest was simply bad for all the young players, and was in serious decline...still is.......glad he is gone too.... Except that you are so busy comparing such a small data amount and drawing a conclusion from it, that we can't have a healthy debate, then you say things like "Talking our your butt" when all I am doing is telling you what DM said in his radio interviews...and he said it more than once. If you missed it, go search the threads, it is in the recaps and you can listen to the podcasts, directly after the trade. DD
I think you had me confused with jopatmc for a while there. But Chase hasn't had an increase because Courtney Lee is playing.. it should be obvious DaDa. Last year, we had 3 SFs and 1 SG. They all played. This year, we have 2 SGs and 2 SFs. They all have been playing. Now, I freely admit I am weak in math.. but that seems to be the exact same amount of players in the rotation as last year with pretty much the exact same minutes for Chase. It seems to be that the only way Chase would have gotten a bump in minutes is if we traded Ariza for a non-guard or one that couldn't crack the rotation. What I'm saying makes TOO much sense.. even for me. We'll just agree to generally disagree -- I don't need to be taking this thread over anymore arguing back and forth.
You are not considering that last year Ariza was out for a good amount of time and so was Shane, thus allowing CBud's minutes to increase over the course of the season. And yes, we have Lee, which makes 4, which you and I both agree is too many to try to shoe horn into one rotation. However, again you are trying to focus a long term discussion into a very small sample size. Ariza had 4 more years on his contract, and Shane only has this year, so Morey was obviously thinking more than just this season, when he traded Ariza to clear room for CBud. It is about going forward, not just about the last 9 games. What you are saying is not making any sense, unless you are only looking at 9 games and not like a GM would which is to improve the franchise going forward. Agreed on no need to go back and forth, we are not looking at the situation in the same manner at all..... DD
Bob Sura did the same thing and he played well for the rockets. I think it was foolish that he did that, but maybe he wanted one that bad on his resume'. Is it any different than tipping the ball to yourself or shooting it up on the glass. It doesn't matter the fashion in which martin scored those points, the fact is his team was lotto every year except the one when he came off the bench. He put up numbers, but in the tight games, he disappeared as we see him do with us. I'm glad he's on the team, but too many posters always talk about posting numbers on poor teams. Do you know how hard it is to play well when you're the sole focus of a team? Its very,very difficult to do until the game gets out of hand. Any player will tell you that and thats why wade and lebron got together and thats why boston has the success they're having with their trio. Its alot easier to have players sharing the attention and the burden of winning than one guy. At 24 yrs old on basically a mle deal, i'm sure alot of teams would like to have the hot garbage you're talking about.
Artest was our best two-way wing player in a long time. Smart fans appreciate the toughness and hustle that he brought. The ones that don't get it called him a cancer that would bring down the lakers (ha!). The hate he gets here is unbelievable. If Yao's foot didn't break, Artest would probably still be wearing rocket red. Because we didn't know if Yao would ever return, Artest was only offered a one year deal. We were deciding whether to rebuild or not, hence the Rubio pursuit, and Ron didn't want any part of it. Either way, Morey obviously valued him on this team. It was Ron's call to leave, not Morey's.
talking out of your ass on that one, amigo http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/artesro01/gamelog/2009/ Also, I do agree that this particular team wouldn't be a good long term fit with Ron...he's on a team where he belongs
DD, mle money for ariza is not a bad contract. He has flaws just like all the rockets players, but post trade, he fit in nicely. The ariza trade was pure money trade just as the next trade will be to get under the lux tax. It makes sense that if your team isn't a contender, don't pay the tax. Its clear the rockets aren't contenders, so why pay the tax? Like longtime said earlier, if they were really trying to get chase alot of minutes, they wouldn't have traded for a young guy like courtney. If they really wanted to clear time for chase, ariza and shane wouldve been dealt.
Man are you being a rude..... In the playoffs that year, Ron's stats .394FG% .277pt% 15.6ppg - not exactly setting the house on fire or a pillar of efficient basketball now is it? And he was so bad on defense that Battier had to guard Roy because Ronald couldn't keep up. Exactly, with a clear heirarchy, a team with strong leadership, otherwise the dude is a clubhouse cancer and a bad influence on younger up and coming players. Leeb I told you and anyone that would listen that Ariza would be traded last year because it made more sense to keep Shane because his contract expired at the same time Yao's did, and if you need to rebuild, you have more $$$$ coming off the books. No one beleived me.....well......... DD
