like I said before, if we tie a cat to a skateboard and give it fighter goggles and attach a JATO Rocket on the back of the skateboard, then place that skateboard on a conveyor built...then ignite the JATO Rocket, what will happen to the cat?
I said "The wheels just turn faster!" Yes the planes engines have to work a little bit harder but the conveyor belt is just acting on the plane's wheels. There is no static joint between the plane and the conveyor belt. The resistance that would move the plane on the belt if the engines were not running would be inertia, gravity and friction and they are easily overcome (in the horizontal plane, not so easy in the verticle plane hence the high energy budget and low lift capacity for VTOL machines) Idling the engines would probably hold the plane in one spot as the wheels turned on the conveyor belt. Powering up the engines would begin to accelerate the plane and speed up the rate of the wheels since there would now be two forces acting on them in different vectors. So say the plane reached it's take off speed of around 200 MPH and the conveyor belt matched that in the opposite direction, the wheels would be spinning at a rate that would be equivelant to 400 MPH on a static runway; but the plane would still take off. That's why creating the wheel was so important; it allows machines to easily overcome inertia in the horizontal plane. Which leads me to one of my favorite songs ever, I don't particularly like The Dead that much but this is from Jerry Garcia's 1972 solo album which outside of the 20 mnutes of psychedlic babble, I love. The Wheel Lyrics: Robert Hunter Music: Jerry Garcia, Bill Kreutzmann Chorus 1 The wheel is turning and you can't slow down You can't let go and you can't hold on You can't go back and you can't stand still If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will Chorus 2 Won't you try just a little bit harder Couldn't you try just a little bit more Won't you try just a little bit harder Couldn't you try just a little bit more Round, round, Robin run around Gotta get back where you belong Little bit harder, just a little bit more Little bit further than you gone before [chorus 1] Small wheel turning by the fire and rod Big wheel turning by the grace of God Every time that wheel turn round Bound to cover just a little more ground
imo, Nero is not even close to an example "as described." go back and look...it is described this way "<i>The conveyor has a system that tracks the speed of the plane and matches it exactly in the opposite direction.</i>" all it says is the conveyor is moving as fast as the plane. hell, it could move faster than the plane, it still would not stop it. Nero is taking the argument outside the realm of reality. He is using a "conveyor belt" figuratively to describe a motionless state. The riddle as stated does not describe a motionless state. It does for a car, but not a plane. hell, forget the wheels. just place the planes belly on the conveyor belt. it will be a rough take off, but it will take off.
It would depend on the coefficient of friction. If there were too much friction between the plane's belly and the belt it would not take off. The wheel my friend, is the key. It nearly negates friction.
It took me 4 pages to "get it" but yes, the plane will take off. It was like a light bulb going off when I realized that the conveyor belt had no impact on the thrust/movement of the plane.
oh..... okay. I think you were asking this rhetorically, but I think it has an answer. I believe that the riddle was asked because people forget that an airplane's forward thrust comes not from its wheels, but from its engines. Come to think of it, so am I. Good point! You just described my life.
OK at first I'm thinking no...but then I got it....and now...well I'm still thinking possibly no...but for a different reason. The wheels have no effect on a plane's thrust...I get that. So if the turning wheel was completely frictionless (the bearings that is, not the rubber touching the ground), then the plane, on a treadmill with no engines on, would stay in one spot. Then as you turn the engines on, the plane will in fact start to move forward...just as if you're taking off from the water. But here's the thing...somehow I doubt they find a set of wheels on a plane that are completely frictionless....therefore when that conveyor starts moving, the plane's gonna go backwards, and that's where the problem lies. Now in a perfect scenario, yes the plane could take off...but not in a real world setting...I don't think it'll happen. It'll be interesting to see how the mythbusters do this...very easy to do on small scale but those guys always turn it up a notch.
and contrary to my like of animals in general The answer to the question is........who cares? the better question would be How many pieces would it be in when it lands? :sinisterlaugh:
Funny. I took a nap and woke up with a clear mind and its finally sunk into me that it would go regardless. If you truly want to slow down the acceleration of the plane, then the conveyor would actually have to be going forward.
i was looking for a graphic like this. mine would have The Hulk straddling the conveyor belt pushing against the plane so it wouldn't move as the conveyor hit not 50, not 100, not 150, but 200 mph. Do any of your actually believe The Hulk couldn't prevent that plane from going backwards? Now put a JATO Rocket on The Hulk's back...or five or ten? Do you not believe a rocket powered Hulk could get that plane some lift?
I asked a Physicist at Rice. He gave me a very complicated explanation and it ended with No, the plane will not take off.
Ok, now I finally get, although y'all have worded it very abstractly. So here it is, laymen's terms. The Plane should take off, but not for the reasons listed. It will lift due to the conveyor belt being a non-factor. The planes jets or propellors will propel the plane forward, much like if a plane were taking off on an ice slick. The point is THE PLANE WILL MOVE FORWARD. So, for the person who originally thought up this idea in hopes of having a super short runway with a conveyor? That would never work. A plane's engine moves the plane forward. The wheels are only there to assist with the forward progression. ie. less friction. The conveyors only purpose would be to create more heat on the tires, due to the increased rotations.
Agree with fatty (and some others). unless you have wheels and axles made literally from crap, it will take off. I know the physicists at Rice, and somebody didn't explain the question very well to them. The question is phrased to make it sound as if the plane can't move, which would mean zero lift.
