I just sliced out pieces of someone's website for that definition. It's accurate as far as I know. Although the term is most commonly used to describe someone's spiritual philosphy, it is based on the idea that it is immoral to claim knowledge that you do not have. Huxley's idea that it is immoral is based on the harm that can be produced by unfounded claims. This quote illustrates his thoughts on that. I was exposed to it at UT during Intro to Philosophy, Fall '90. Didn't take much convincing for me
I still see the value in religion and the value in core belief systems. Frankly, I wish I had one that suited me but none of them can seem to cover all of what I believe. I always got the sense that agnostics were more comfortable seeking humanist and philosophical answers to problems as opposed to spiritual - that they were, in a sense, skeptical of anything supernatural. That's really the opposite of me. I'm very curious about spirituality and am very open to that. I just haven't found a single religion with which I can identify AND I'm open to the possibility that there are answers well beyond my ability to reason. Maybe I have a biased definition of agnosticism, but it seems like agnostics are often as set in their beliefs as religious practitioners.
unfortunately your logic gets totally debunked since you're basing your reasoning on Judao-Christian text, and MR. MEOWGI is apparently neither.
As much as I want to be opened minded about other religions, I can’t and probably never will. It’s hard for me to understand when people say that their religion is the true religion. Most people don’t realize how many different religions have existed since time began. The popular religions had the best armies to back up their beliefs. Governments or tribes that wanted to take over the opposing tribe or government’s land destroyed many religions. What would have happened if Jesus was born in North America instead of Bethlehem? When the Europeans came they would have probably destroyed Christianity.
My favorite Carlinism: In the Bull**** Department, a businessman can't hold a candle to a clergyman. Cause I gotta tell you the truth, folks. When it comes to bull****, big-time, major league bull****, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bull**** story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you.
It all comes down to faith. If you don't have faith, then you're statement is correct. But if you have faith, then you believe that God created you, and as in every single situation in the world, you should be greatful to the entity that created you. If you create a robot and it disobeys you, you will dismantle it.
Lil Pun, So you didn't research Christianity thoroughly to see what the deal is? At which point exactly did you say "no, that's not enough" to Christianity?
What exactly is this "you"? How can we be separate from God? If we are in the mind of God, are we a part of God? How is the created completely separate from the creator?
I'm an atheist. I don't believe in God or gods. I didn't do any research, this is how I feel. Some organised religion brings value to society, some doesn't. This is the basis on which I view and assess religion, on the practical effects it has on the society and world in which I live. I have no desire to participate, and feel no need to either. The worst thing about being atheist? Smug religious types, who tend to respond to my beliefs with a knowing "I'm right, you're wrong" smile. You don't see reacting to them like that when I think of all the things I've got done on Sunday mornings over the years.
To me it always seemed if some ancient scholars decided that in order to influence men's behaviour they would use the gerneral lack of knowledge about the nature of physical existance to give creedence to their morality myths. You don't understand what the sun is, well it's a god and it wants you to obey the pharoah. Don't understand what thunder is, well it's god telling you to obey the emperor. Don't understand the plague? It's a god telling you your society is evil. Now, I'm agnostic but I believe the Christian priciples of non-violence and forgiveness are the most profound leap toward a peaceful world I can imagine. But in practice a Christian society has to be willing to accept the ultimate sacrifice and since about 100 BC I haven't seen any evidence of any organization doing that. Gahndi maybe, Martin Luther King sorta. For one thing you better be very sure your afterlife is assured before you passively submit your fate as an act of religeous principle. So it just seems illogical to me that there would be an omnipotent concious entity that could be responsible for everthing in a 25 billion light year wide universe and still be focused on the 6 billion inhabitants of a tiny speck of dust way off in the corner. That could have designed the infinitly small interations of quantum mechanics. That would create mankind only to see it suffer torture, pain, sickness and death. However, it seems that a predominant number of the earths inhabitants have seen fit to proclaim some type of god or another and almost none in history have come to the same conclusion I have. So, I'll not proclaim the certaintude of atheism and leave it open that maybe I'm wrong...hence I'm agnostic.
On a more serious note, I've met very few people I'd actually consider a) agnostic or b) atheist (which must be closely linked with Nihilism if all elements are understood correctly), with the latter winning out in that I've never seen or met one. I've met people who say they are atheist, but when it comes down to it they always believe in some sort of something, be it love, nothing, relativism. To say you are an atheist would take the strength and weakness of Conrad's Kurtz as he yells out "The horror! The horror!" The great abyss of nothingness which either is or isn't existence is a bigger question than most self professed atheists that I've known have even begun to think about and which must be addressed, be it that nihilism and atheism are so closely linked. In realtion to agnostocism, I think it is a respectable postition although I myself am Catholic. I respect it in the way I respect Socrates' profession of ignorance in the apology. However, very few people have that view on it as well, sort of a I'm waiting for some evidence stance. However, this is not always the case, given this chick I work with and how I respect her agnostic position in that she thinks she is unable to know whether their is a God or not.
Good post, Gene. I fit the classic (original) definition of agnosticism posted here. I'm not inclined to take the word of an ancient peoples that they received word from God any more than I would be to take the word of someone who said that today. But the only thing I'm more sure of then the idea there is no God is the idea that I couldn't possibly know. I do know though that the vengeful, insecure God described in the major Western religions is no God I'd ever worship. Real or not, I wouldn't follow a deity who would cast his subjects into eternal hellfire for not worshipping him. Then again, if there was a being so great and powerful that he created the universe, I seriously doubt he'd have these weird issues. Agnostic or not, I'm almost positive that stuff's man made. That said, I'm totally on board with GP about Christ and his teachings. I'm a big fan of that side of it.
Yes! It is bigger than concepts, ideas, and it can only be experienced. Also, the Buddha offered a cure to Nihilism without relying on Eternalism.
I never said that. I observed different religions, ancient and modern, and saw that many people worship different entities. Basically I came to the conclusion, how do we as mere humans know which one is right? How do you know that you are supposed to worship God instead of, let's say Zeus? So I thought we really don't know if there is a God or not, basically. It tooks years to finally come to my current beliefs. Would the correct term for someone like you be apostate? That is a person who has abandoned religion and the like?
How familiar are you with the concept of Eternal Return in the thought of Nietzsche? Somehow I think a conversation between you and I would turn out like the middle of Socrates' School of Athens, you would point upwards to the forms and a God that is outside of being, whereas I would take a view closer to Aristotle's (but fully in line with Aquinas) of a God pulling humanity towards it. (That's a compliment to us both I think) Have you read much Mortimer Adler?
