Depends on who you ask, right? I believe different sects of Judaism come out differently on this. I've been doing a bit of reading on this lately. I know the Pharisees (in the 1st Century times) believed in heaven and hell. They called hell, Gehanna. The rabbis even came up with different levels of hell, calling the lowest level Abaddon. In the New Testament, we see Jesus refer to hell as Gehanna over and over again. Our translations call it hell. But the original writings use the word Gehanna. The Sadducees didn't believe in any life after death at all. 2 Maccabees talks about an after-life. The Psalms certainly speak to it. And Kabbalah definitely embraces the concept. Among my Jewish friends and clients, I think most believe there's some form of life after death. And by the way, No Worries -- have you read Job? Satan isn't exactly a sweet guy in that book..and that's a Hebrew story...he has a bigger role in that book than any in the NT that I can think of (depending on your interpretation of Revelation) Psalms refer to the "Evil One." And Zecaraiah speaks to him a lot, as well.
You probably know more than me. But ... Earliest Judaism centered on the first five books of the bible (Pentateuch ). IIRC this is still The Core Teachings of Judaism. The Christian Heaven, Hell, Free Will and Satan aint there. These are all later theological developments in Judaism, if not Greek imports. Thus, in core Judaism there is no afterlife, heaven or hell.
earliest Judaism meaning that at the time of King David?? because that would have been reflected, at least somewhat, in Pslams. which certainly talks of those things. the first five books of the Bible are written as history. but you don't have to get far into Genesis to find Satan and his role in things.
He is there but ... Does Pentateuch Satan make you sin? Is Pentateuch Satan's Hell the home for the unsaved dead? Without that whole afterlife thingy, Satan is just a fallen angel gone bad.
Satan is absolutely presented as the Tempter in Genesis. He's presented the same way by Christ in the Lord's Prayer. "Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the Evil One." The "Evil One" word is the very word used in OT texts to describe him. Hell is the home of the "wicked" in much of Jewish tradition. You can not limit Judaism to the Pentateuch.
heypartner, my wife is a longtime "non-practicing Catholic," and seems none the worse for wear because of it. She goes to mass with her sister on 2 or 3 of the major holidays. That seems enough to her. She's more concerned about the 2 kids we have getting exposed to some kind of religion. Thinks they should at least have the option, to see if they develop an interest. She's taken them to a Unitarian church here in Austin, and another church that's the American version of the Church of England. (the name escapes me) My sweetie really doesn't want them to get "into" Catholicism, regardless of her own background, or maybe because of her own background. She went to Catholic schools until she started high school. Her sister is a teacher at a Catholic school, btw, and her uncle is a priest. Me? I belong to the Marx Brothers viewpoint... I wouldn't belong to a religion that would have me as a member. (I'm agnostic) Many people feel a void inside that they think they can fill with religion. I respect that. I happen to be filled up, I guess. Good luck figuring out what you want to do. D&D. We are what We Are.
JaWindex, I sent you an email via the bbs. Not sure if you check your registration address much. anyhow, I told Deacon Ed that someone recommended his Inquiry meeting to me. Of course, he asked me who it was, and I had to tell him I didn't know and explain what cf.net was. haha that was slightly awkward, but he laughed.
heyp, Just out of curiosity (and feel free to say you don't want to discuss it), are you saying that u dont think Jesus is important at all in Christianity? are you saying you're uncomfortable with his teachings? or maybe that he's just a man? I mean.. If Jesus is just a man, does that mean he hasnt supported the church/bible with his excellent teachings which could make you a better person? I guess the way I'm looking at this is that even an atheist can take a look at what Jesus has done and consider him important. So why couldn't you? Maybe I've misunderstood a lot of what you're saying, I don't know... Just curious about what your thoughts are I guess...
Perhaps because the stories about him aren't true? The first organized ceremonial religion was the worship of the sun. The sun was the "Sky Father," the "All Seeing," the source of life -- the fireside of the world. The sun was regarded as a god who fought the darkness, the power of evil, the enemy of man. There have been many sun-gods, and they seem to have been the chief deities in the ancient religions. They have been worshiped in many lands, by many nations that have passed to death and dust. Apollo was a sun-god and he fought and conquered the serpent of night. Baldur was a sun-god. He was in love with the Dawn -- a maiden. Chrishna was a sun-god. At his birth the Ganges was thrilled from its source to the sea, and all the trees, the dead as well as the living, burst into leaf and bud and flower. Hercules was a sun-god and so was Samson, whose strength was in his hair -- that is to say, in his beams. He was shorn of his strength by Delilah, the shadow -- the darkness. Osiris, Bacchus, and Mithra, Hermes, Buddha, and Quetzalcoatl, Prometheus, Zoroaster, and Perseus, Cadom, Lao-tsze, Fo-hi, Horus and Rameses, were all sun-gods. All of these gods had gods for fathers and their mothers were virgins. The births of nearly all were announced by stars, celebrated by celestial music, and voices declared that a blessing had come to the poor world. All of these gods were born in humble places -- in caves, under trees, in common inns, and tyrants sought to kill them all when they were babes. All of these sun-gods were born at the winter solstice -- on Christmas. Nearly all were worshiped by "wise men." All of them fasted for forty days -- all of them taught in parables -- all of them wrought miracles -- all met with a violent death, and all rose from the dead. The history of these gods is the exact history of our Christ. This is not a coincidence -- an accident. Christ was a sun-god. Christ was a new name for an old biography -- a survival -- the last of the sun-gods. Christ was not a man, but a myth -- not a life, but a legend. (As quoted from Robert G Ingersoll)
If you don't see Jesus as all that important, then honestly I wouldn't bother with going to church. The church thinks Jesus is very important and it seems like one of those real make-or-break points. Not that I'm trying to discourage church-going. But, as a church-goer who doesn't believe in the divinity of Jesus myself, I see no point in attending, save for some practical, Machiavellian motivations. To put it another way, if you don't literally believe you are damned to Hell and lost in sin and can find salvation only through faith in Jesus who was a sacrifice that paid for your sin so you could enjoy eternal fellowship with the one true God -- if you don't believe that, why go through the farce of affirming it every Sunday? This may be a shortcoming of mine, but I don't see the value in a vague spirituality; if I can't believe in the literal truth of the Bible (which I can't), I'd just discard the whole business. In any case, good luck. I probably have not been very helpful, but questions of divinity are important, so I hope you find something you can be satisfied with (and lands you in Heaven, if there is such a thing).
I dont know, I would try all your options and see for yourself. Dont pin yourself to one religion right off the bat, try them all and see what works best for you. I believe in the Book Of Acts and alot of people dont think the Church started there but I do...to each his own. Before you dont think GOD is important make sure you look at the whole picture and not what one denomination says. Good Luck, it took me several years to figure out whats best for me...my parents think I am crazy though
Not to mention that Jesus couldn't possibly be the messiah, according to the Bible. But don't let the facts get in the way of your beleifs.
i love these statements. i'm guessing you're a Bible scholar, huh? how much time do you spend/have you spent reading through the Bible? look...there is an element of faith in all this. but the condescension, whether from believers or non-believers on these issues is putrid. there are smarter men than you who came down on the other side of this issue. i promise....i know many of them. and i've read the others. on the other hand, there are certainly smarter men than me who came down on the other side of this from me. that's fine, too. i always vow to stay out of these religion threads...and i always fail.
Ehsan, Juan Valdez, Everything starts with honesty in yourself. I can honestly say that you both know more than me.
