Adelman vs JVG

I do respect Riley and Pop....but I despise Larry Brown. And JVG is not as good as any of them.

I guess we shall see how the rest of the season goes with a healthy team.

Already Adelman has done a better job of getting more out of the team without their best player, let's see if he can get more out of a healthy team.

DD

 

Debatable. I think Yao is our best player and we went 21-12 without him and without a willing Bonzi, Brooks and Scola

 

You keep saying it takes time. The season is almost halfway over. How much more time do you require? If we miss the playoffs, will you still be saying "it takes time"? They had training camp and half a season to gel...AND WE HAVE THE SAME STARTING ROTATION

I hope they turn it around, but we look terrible, outside of beating some crappy eastern conference teams with TMac out...then losing to another one

 

Yao can not initiate the offense he needs someone to get him the ball for a shot.

JVG put the entire team's fortunes in Tmac's hands, he was responsible for making almost all the crucial decisions, so when Yao went down, the responsbilities remaned the same.

This year, the team shares those responsibilities, which will make the overall team much better in the long run.

That is how I see it.

And Blake, starting doesn't seem to be that much of a problem, finishing does - and that is the same as last year too.

DD

 

You are assumming that the rest of the squad is worth a lick. Hayes, Head, Battier, Alston, James, Francis, Snyder, Novak. I reserve judgement on unproven commodities like Scola, Landry, Brooks. Francis might get his knees fixed and be of use again but right now no.

 

i didnt say he was, but they maintain some VERY similar principles.

so adelman gets an "injury pass" but jvg never did huh? Like yao not being 100% against utah? Or howard/sura/wesley being out (or battling with injury) against dallas? You are a smart guy, but sure not very good at being fair and objective.

adelman has already done a better job with injuries?

you really didnt just type that with a straight face did you?

 

Did you somehow forget about Yao posting up, a PG/SG throwing him the ball in the post, then Yao shooting or drawing a double to kick it out to an open 3 point shooter? That was easily 50% of our offense last season. The other 50% was Tmac creating off of high screens. Yao had just as much offensive responsibility as TMAc, per his 25 points per game. It isn't as if TMac got doubled and then passed it to Yao for dunks. Yao was all over the low block and drawing doubles. Surely you have not forgotten about that

 

well put. Tmac and yao are the workhorses. I know you want team ball and all, but it starts and finishes with those 2 guys the majority of the time. Just like every team that has had 2 or 3 key guys. e.g. TD, manu, parker. Jordan pippen, kobe shaq, shaq, wade, etc. Sure, you need other guys to step up, but you go as youbest players go,

 

I gave JVG an injury pass many many times, after 4 years I had had enough...I came to the conclusion that his way was not going to work because of his inability to make adjustments to counter other teams when they make adjustments.

Again, I think JVG is a good coach, but not the RIGHT coach for the Rockets and that is what I really care about.

Did ya MISS the Philly game? Or the GS game, or well hell ANY game that the other team doulbes Yao or fronts him to deny the pass?

I said Yao can not INITIATE the offense, someone has to get him the ball...and with Tmac out....the other team has no one else they have to worry about.....they can simply deny the ball to Yao....at crucial times and the team will wilt.

With Yao out, Tmac can still set up his teamates because he does not need help setting the table.



DD

 

I'd need to see some exact quotes. Sounds like you are paraphrasing.

Novak is not a rookie any more. You also ignore that Novak STARTED his first game as a rookie under JVG and promptly showed he was not ready for that role. He played in 35 games as a rookie under JVG. So far he has only played in 3 under Adelman as a second year player, and those were primarily garbage time minutes. In those minutes he looked about the same as he did in the preseason with JVG his rookie year when he played well enough to get that start for the first game of the year.

I'm trying to figure out what clearly better roster moves we had available. I mean you act like we could have had Jason Kidd or Steve Nash but we picked Rafer instead... and we could have had Tim Duncan but we took Chuck Hayes. Some of you act like JVG took over the defending western conference champions rather than a lottery team. It's funny how JVG supposedly didn't want half the players on the team yet you pin the way the roster looks now on him. Why did our GM only listen to Jeff's bad roster suggestions?

The only form that VSpan was a great asset was in that we got Scola for him. You do realise he played in 31 games as a rookie right? Only 8.7 minutes per game but what did he show to warrant more minutes?

Boki is an average at best player who didn't play any signifincant minutes under your "ideal coach" Rudy T either. Right now he is shooting worse than Rafer on a team that has a worse record than the Rockets while playing in the weaker east. If Boki resigned with the rockets today for the minimum salary I wouldn't be jumping for joy in excitement.

If we don't ever compete it is because our roster is not good enough. How many successful coaches have to come in here and fail for people to realise that? That doesn't mean that JVG or Adelman do not make mistakes or share some of the blame, but a ultimately coach is only as successful as his players make him.

 

I could be, he was saying that Luther was not his pick and that he was going to struggle being an undersized SG.

I never said Novak was a rookie, I said he looks SO much more comfortable this year under Adelman, and I attribute that to the NBDL league, and Adelman being willing to use it, whereas JVG was not.

Trading Boki as a throw in, not playing V-Span, trading Mike James for Rafer. I blame the entire organization for this failure but clearly JVG was involved wanting HIS type of players.....until last year where it was also clear that the organiztion had had enough of JVG and brought in there own types of players, which JVG benched.

He played terrible in some games, average in others, and great in a few, even JVG praised him as playing AWESOME against Washington last year. The problem was he was a rookie and in a new league and never got consistent time to get into his comfort zone....look how much Scola has improved because of the trust given to him by Rick Adelman.

The over riding point about V-Span was that we needed another attacking player to play with Tmac and Rafer was not, is not it.....why not give a chance to a guy whose main attribute is attacking the rim? JVG misused him big time, he shot better inside the 3pt line.

Boki had a groin injury his rookie year and even Rudy said he was sort of like another first round pick for the next year, but Rudy was gone. Boki was showing signs of coming around, and this team could use his good 3pt shooting and slashing style right now. I would love to have him on the team.

It is a symbiotic relationship, some of it is on the players, some on the coach. JVG won a grand total of ONE more game than Rudy in his first year...ONE STINKING game....and this is with an improving Yao Ming. I hardly consider JVG a success.....

He is gone, this argument is tired, none of us are going to change our minds on any of this....

I think JVG was a dud, the organization agreed, and he was fired.....nuff said.

DD

 

So the GM ignored JVG's input on Head, but listened to him on Battier? Ignored him on Bonzi, but listened to him on Rafer? Ignored him on VSpan, but listened to him on Hayes? Basicly any player you didn't like was JVG's idea and any player you liked was the GM? that sounds plauseable

It's 3 games, primarily in garbage time. You still ignore the fact that he STARTED for us his first game as a rookie. A convenient thing to omit when saying JVG never plays rookies...

Who exactly were the JVG players and who were the better options we could have had? Mike James is here now and not doing anything. The Battier deal is pinned on JVG, yet that was last year when you claim the GM was ignoring Jeff and bringing in their own types of players.

VSpan could have proven everyone wrong with either us or the Spurs and choose not to. I guess that was JVG's fault too.

Rudy also traded Richard Jefferson and Jason Collins for Eddie Griffin the year before JVG was hired. Picked Brice Drew over Rashard Lewis. There were alot more duds than studs under Rudy in the post championship years.

Like I said, Boki is shooting worse than Rafer from both 2 and 3 pt range, on a team that has a worse record than the Rockets in a considerably softer conference. He is an average player at best. You act like he is Peja in his prime or something.

We only missed the 2nd round twice by ONE STINKING GAME... Sometimes one game matters. It's just comical to say that Yao would have improved regardless of coaching but other guys didn't improve because of coaching.

And now the team is rolling in the wins after being removed from his oppressive chains

 

you can only adjust to what you have. Funny that some of the same problems still plague the rockets after his departure. Maybe,. just maybe, its the team, not the coaching

he ignores many things that are convenient for his "argument"

he believes what he believes, unfortunately what he believes isnt based on the factualy matters

 

that is a true statement. Every coach in every league will agree with this. Too bad some people can't understand this

 

Alston says players shoulder blame
Rockets guard among many surprised by team's decision


By FRAN BLINEBURY
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle


NBA BLOGS
Courtside with Blinebury

Feigen on NBA

Yao Central with fan Ren Hsieh
SAN ANTONIO — If Jeff Van Gundy was the fall guy for another first-round failure in the playoffs, at least one of the Rockets thinks the wrong guy tumbled.

"If there's any blame in this situation, it comes on us as players," point guard Rafer Alston said. "If we win Game 7 like we should have, then we're probably still playing and nobody's talking about any of this. That game and the whole season came down to us being able to get the job done, and we didn't."

The general reaction from players and most NBA observers is that Van Gundy got all that he could out of the Rockets in guiding them to a 52-30 record in another injury-plagued season when Tracy McGrady missed 10 games and Yao Ming 33 because of injury.

"We had another up-and-down season this year, and it ended with a disappointment," center Dikembe Mutombo said. "But you have to consider that Jeff had to play the second unit for a large part of the season, and he was able to keep the team together and get us into the playoffs when many people did not think that would be possible."

Jon Barry played two seasons under Van Gundy in Houston and was one of Van Gundy's broadcast partners for Friday night's Spurs-Suns game in San Antonio.

"I'm surprised they're going in another direction," Barry said. "Obviously they're disappointed with another first-round loss. But I think that Jeff did one of the finest coaching jobs of his career this season. I mean, he has to play without Yao for 30-plus games and he held it all together when the season could have come apart.

"Jeff is the best coach I ever played for. I think it's his dedication to winning and how focused he is about winning. That's all he's about. He'll do anything to win. His basketball knowledge is like no one that I've ever been around. Coaches, GMs, owners, scouts, anybody. He knows more about basketball than anyone.

"If you ever hear players say that they don't like playing for Jeff, then those are players who don't like playing basketball. But if you love playing basketball, if you love to compete, then there is no better coach you could have than Jeff."

Both coaches in Friday night's Western Conference playoff game simply shook their heads at Van Gundy's dismissal.

"You never know what's going on with somebody else's organization," Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "But I do know he's a helluva coach and anybody would be lucky to have him as their coach."

Suns coach Mike D'Antoni had a question of his own.

"The guy almost won coach of the year, didn't he?" D'Antoni said of Van Gundy, who finished fourth in the balloting. "That's tough. I hate it for any coach. But he's one of the best coaches that I know. It's just too bad. That's our wacky business, isn't it?"

Alston credits Van Gundy for his own personal development in the NBA.

"Not only being a solid point guard out there on the floor, but also in helping me understand what it takes to be everyday player in the league, to be accountable for all of my actions," he said. "Jeff gave me a chance to run the team, and even though I didn't always shoot the ball particularly well, he always complimented me on the way I handled the offense, ran the team.

"I'm glad I had him as my coach, and he deserves a lot of credit for what was accomplished here. He doesn't deserve the blame for what we didn't do."

link

 

I have no doubt that Adelman is an elite NBA coach -- just like Don Nelson is a great coach.

But Adelman is not the right coach for the Rockets, just like Don Nelson was not the right coach for the Knicks...

 

And I have continually said it is also on the players, but sometimes different coaches can get more out of the same players. JVG did the best job he could, let's see if Adelman can get more out of them.

So far....it is up in the air...

LOL - you are a funny man.....it is all a matter of opinion, who is more right than the other guy.

Arguing about the same crap where no one can change the others mind is a bit silly.

The management of the Rockets made the decision for us...JVG is gone, he is not coming back...ever....

Let's cheer on the new coach and hope he can do better....

Or is it more important to argue a side that has already lost, like the JVG apologists do?

And Rhester, obviously management agreed that JVG was part of the problem no matter what the underachieving players say....

DD

 

The funny part is that DD expects to be taken seriously after making blanket statements about how "JVG failed!" ad nauseum, after a coach-of-the-year season, and then hides behind the "well it's just a matter of opinion!" card whenever he likes to sit back and reflect on the failed one year experiment of his favorite little grape leaf-stuffer who went running back to the barn.

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit! Unless the glove fits, your honor, in which case, you must acquit, because whether or not it fits, it's just a matter of opinion!

The fact that he makes silly, mutually inconsistent arguments speaks for itself, the fact that he makes up lies to support them (see Luther Head, e.g.) I guess speaks to something else. Or maybe not.

 

dadakota...personal vendetta...maybe he didnt thinik he was very good. vspan mismanaged...only you and vspan think that...and they werent on the cusp...up 5 with 5 to go vs. utah, did you post and say they had no chance to win...you are better than this type of revionist history...like on your posts about adelman and being a bonzi supporter until now...jvg just saw it before you did that bonzi wasnt adding anything.