Sunday, May 11 Under capable Cleamons, Lake Show goes on -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By David Aldridge Special to ESPN.com LOS ANGELES -- He didn't view this as a special chance, because he already knows what he can do and he thinks you should, too. But Sunday was, to me, a no-win situation for Jim Cleamons. Win, and you're only doing what you're supposed to do on your home floor. Lose, and it would take folks about a nanosecond to look at the bench, see that Phil Jackson wasn't there and figure out some way to blame you. "That's maybe why I was so relaxed," Cleamons said late Sunday, next to his team's locker room, a handful of cameras and writers waiting for him to be free, the demands of moving over six inches on the Lakers' bench having changed everyone's expectations. "I was going to do my best. If we went down 3-1, so be it. But I was going to coach the best I could. I knew the guys would play the best they could. And maybe in the midst of that, we would be successful." Assistant Jim Cleamons, center, is content to sit on the Lakers' bench until a good head coaching gig comes along. The Lakers were successful on Sunday, winning 99-95 over San Antonio to tie this series at 2-all -- anyone out there think the winner of this tilt won't be holding up the O'Brien Trophy in a month? But the circumstances of L.A.'s win were even deeper than normal. A day earlier, Jackson had undergone an angioplastic procedure to open a 90 percent blockage in his left anterior descending artery. Everything else checked out fine, but there sat the plaque, getting closer and closer to blocking off the blood flow through that artery entirely. "The risk was a massive heart attack," Lakers public relations director John Black had said Saturday, chilling words in their matter-of-factness. Even though Jackson came through the two-hour procedure fine, and his prognosis is excellent, Jackson was ordered by doctors to go home when released from the hospital Sunday morning and not to attend the game. So the Four-Peat, facing its most critical test, was handed over to assistant coach Cleamons, Class of '71, Ohio State University, who has spent three decades being a student of the game waiting for another chance to show what he can do. After working his way to top assistant on Chicago's bench during its first four titles, Cleamons took the head job in Dallas in 1996. He was told he'd get four years to install the triangle and turn around the then-moribund Mavericks. He got a year and a half, saw each of the Three Js traded and got shown the door by new general manager Don Nelson. "I don't think coach Cleamons got a fair shake," Jason Kidd says now, and that's telling, because the two did not see eye-to-eye when Kidd was the Mavericks' young, jump shot-less point guard. But when Jackson came to L.A. in 2000, he brought Cleamons with him. Three more titles have followed. And if you add the ring Cleamons got in 1972 as a rookie guard with the Lakers, he's been part of eight championship teams. Yet, the good head coaching jobs still seem to pass him by. It's kind of like, either take this Clipper Gig or else. So Cleamons has chosen to wait it out in LaLa. There are worse places to hang, I suppose. "This is my 13th year" of coaching, Cleamons said. "I played this game nine years as a professional. If people don't know who I am by now, they don't know me. I'm happy here. Will I get another opportunity? Hopefully, one day, sooner or later. It doesn't make a difference. I'm happy with the job I do. I love our coaching staff. I'm not chasing a job. If someone wants to call, fine. If not, so be it." But this is what frequently happens: out of sight, out of mind. New, hot young assistants come to the fore, and if you've been an assistant on the bench for eight years, nine years, 10 years, some folks start to wonder if that's all you want to do, or can do. It's a gamble that only those who are at peace in mind and spirit are willing to take. But Cleamons has learned from the likes of Bill Sharman, K.C. Jones, Dick Motta and Red Holzman. And Phil Jackson, who let Cleamons focus on defense. That was his intention again on Sunday as well; Tex Winter moved back from behind the bench to the third assistant's chair, ready to yell at Kobe Bryant when he broke off the triple post. Cleamons was calm, well aware of the stakes, but no different in the locker room beforehand. "He was fine," Brian Shaw said. "He was very confident. He was himself. But we have a veteran, experienced team, and there really wasn't anything he needed to say." That changed during a terrible first half in which no one named O'Neal or Bryant scored for the Lakers until 5:30 remained in the second quarter. The Lakers were in mud. No one was moving. Bryant was forced to try and do too much himself. But the Lakers got a break when foul trouble sent Tim Duncan to the bench late in the half, and the Spurs stalled. A 16-point deficit was down to seven by intermission, and the Lakers had life. And Cleamons had a phone call in the assistant coaches' office during the break. It was a certain long-limbed head coach, resting not-so-comfortably in Playa del Rey. "He just told us how ugly we were playing, and we all agreed," Cleamons said. "Everything he was saying, we had told them in the huddles. But we weren't connecting." But Cleamons made the link late in the third quarter. When the under-three minute timeout came, Bryant was on the floor with four fouls and the Spurs led by nine. Yet another team had the Lakers down, and nearly out, only needing to step on their necks to finish the job. Instead, Cleamons jumped his team. "We told him if they had an all-antics team, he'd be the coach of that team," Shaw said. "He told everybody to sit down. He pulled his pants up, got down on his knees, told us to take a deep breath. Everyone was kind of (skeptical). He said 'No, take a deep breath.' Everybody took a deep breath. He said 'We're going to do it right now ... we're going to bring the energy, we're going to get it back, it starts with our active hands, and what we're going to do at the defensive end. But we're going to make it happen right now, so that we're in a position when the fourth quarter starts to make a run at this game.' " It had the potential to blow up in his face. Speechifying usually doesn't work on guys making seven- and eight-figure salaries, especially if the speechifier isn't Big Chief Triangle. It was something out of Hoosiers. Except, it worked. “ I'm hopeful that, the good Lord willing, that I'll get another opportunity. I'm just about being patient, learning my craft, and being the best assistant coach I can be. Because when I get my next opportunity, I'm going to be the best head coach I can be. ” — Jim Cleamons The Lakers dug down and turned the game around at the defensive end. Derek Fisher came up with a steal, and Bryant finished it off with a thunderous dunk. Samaki Walker blocked a Stephen Jackson shot, and the next time down, Shaq swatted another one. L.A. went from seven down to four up in 2:54, taking a 71-67 edge at the end of the quarter when Shaw knocked down another of his ridiculous end-of-period threes. "I was challenging them," Cleamons said. "I can only sit there so long. I'm still sometimes too competitive sometimes for my own being. But I was getting a little bit upset at the fact that we weren't showing any character. (He said) 'I can coach you, I can help you, but I don't know the team that's out there. You're not doing the things we practiced, you're not doing the things you know how to do ... the way that you're playing, I don't know who you guys are.' " The fourth quarter, as with most NBA fourth quarters, didn't belong to the coaches. It was all Kobe, relentless as he attacked the rim, drawing double- and triple-teams as he beat Bruce Bowen off the dribble, forcing the action and keeping the Spurs on their heels. It was Bryant who put the Lakers ahead for good with a free throw with 48 seconds left, and it was Bryant who picked off Tony Parker's ill-advised lob of an inbounds pass to preserve the Lakers' series-tying victory. And it will be Jackson who officially gets credit for the win. As Cleamons was the "acting" head coach, not the permanent one, the W will go in PJ's career column. Cleamons will have to wait for another day, and another chance. He wants an owner and a general manager who believe in him, who'll give him every chance to show what three decades and being on eight championship teams have taught him. He'll wait until it's just right, because at the end of the day, he's got a beautiful wife and two beautiful little girls, and he's on his second dynasty. Life's not all that bad. "I appreciate what a head coach goes through," he said in the hallway. "I'm hopeful that, the good Lord willing, that I'll get another opportunity. I'm just about being patient, learning my craft, and being the best assistant coach I can be. Because when I get my next opportunity, I'm going to be the best head coach I can be. I'm doing my due diligence. When the lights are on, somebody's home." David Aldridge, who covers the NBA for ESPN, is a regular contributor to ESPN.com. Although lot of people want Van Gundy, this is one of the guys I want to coach the Rockets. He's paid his dues, was put in a bad situation in Dallas and is ready to take all that he's learned and apply it to a second team. If not him, Silas is my 2nd choice.
Wasn't it Jim Cleamons that got a job in Dallas after he tried to pick a "fight" with Patrick Ewing during a play-off game(Bulls vs Knicks)? Hmmmm, "How to get a coaching job...show you can talk trash."
Is it just luck that the lakers have Mr. "capable" Cleamons when Jackson is away and we got Mr. "useless" Mean while Rudy T was sick? Hell NO. It shows what a championship takes. Every part of the whole team must be "capable". Weak link will destroy the whole team, especially when it is at a critical position.
I don't think Steve and Cat would be able to handle anything resembling a triangle offense. The very idea might make their little heads explode.
Good thing those Shaq and Kobe guys had nothing to do with the victory . . .or the excellent home cooking Rocket River
Actually leeb, I agree with you on Jim Cleamons. Is this a risky move? No question about it. However, there are two big reasons I would like Cleamons as coach of this team. First off, Cleamons is pretty tough on young players that play an undisciplined style of ball. Second, I think the traingle offense would be the ideal offensive strategy for the Rockets. I am fully expecting the tape watchers in this forum to completely be opposed to this view b/c they have a visceral hatred for anything that Phil Jackson is involved in, but the triangle offense would be ideal for this team imo. There is a book written by Tex Winter on this offense which can be found at most libraries or purchased over the internet. In any case, glancing through it, you will notice the ideal combination of talent for this offense is a big man that can pass and has the ability to play in the high post with quick guards or wing players that move well w/o the ball. Simply put, its based on passing, cutting and movement. The ideal center for this offense is someone like Bill Walton, Vlade Divac, Sabonis or Yao. Winter has been able to adapt the offense to make it work in other places w/o this exact blueprint of talent, but Yao is the ideal big man to run this offense around. The Rockets show shades of this type of offense when Yao once in a while moves to the high post, but this is very much few and far between. This offense requires a lot of discipline, understanding and enforcement to run correctly none of which the Rockets currently; however, a tough coach like Cleamons could help bring that in. That being said, I would guess the odds of bringing in Cleamons are a longshot b/c fans would be in an uproar if Rudy was replaced by anything less than a "name" coach. Plus, from the info in this forum, it sounds like there is a 100% chance Rudy will be back.
Unfortunately for Jim he did not get a fair deal in Dallas. Having said that he was still completely ineffective while coaching there. One of the things Cleamons will always have to deal with is the fact that he was the coach of the Mavs when they traded Jason Kidd. When Cleamons was the coach for the Mavs they had Jason Kidd, Jim Jackson and Jamaal Mashburn. He was set on teaching them the triangle and none of them ever figured it out. I would hate to have Cleamons as a coach mainly because I think our team needs a veteran coach with some kind of proven track record. I would also hate to see Jim try and teach Steve, Cat and Yao Ming the triangle. Jim showed absolutely no ability to teach the offense when he was with the Mavs.
this is a true statement, however this is one of the many reasons that the three J's tuned Cleamons out very early on. Sometimes being an ******* is not an effective way to coach.
Ok, first they traded Kidd, then Mashburn then Jackson in a span of less than 2 yrs and you blame him for that? Its known that it takes at least a yr for the triangle offense. Dallas didn't even give him a entire season with it. He's paid his dues and is ready to show what he can do now. If the Rockets ran the triangle, no one here would be talking about moving Francis to the 2 guard. Check this out:This was his 1st yr as coach Name G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP REB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO EFF AV Chris Gatling 47 1283 891 19.0 327 623 .525 236 329 .717 1 6 .167 370 7.9 28 0.6 39 31 120 18.09 7.5 Jim Jackson 77 2831 1226 15.9 444 1029 .431 252 310 .813 86 247 .348 411 5.3 316 4.1 86 32 208 15.84 9.8 Michael Finley 83 2790 1249 15.0 475 1071 .444 198 245 .808 101 280 .361 372 4.5 224 2.7 68 24 164 13.61 9.2 Erick Strickland 28 759 297 10.6 102 256 .398 65 80 .813 28 92 .304 90 3.2 68 2.4 27 5 66 9.00 3.0 George Mccloud 64 1493 658 10.3 238 578 .412 83 101 .822 99 254 .390 179 2.8 109 1.7 61 8 61 9.31 5.7 Derek Harper 75 2210 753 10.0 299 674 .444 95 128 .742 60 176 .341 137 1.8 321 4.3 92 12 132 10.33 7.0 A.c. Green 83 2492 597 7.2 234 484 .483 128 197 .650 1 20 .050 656 7.9 69 0.8 70 16 74 12.23 8.5 Samaki Walker 43 602 214 5.0 83 187 .444 48 74 .649 0 1 .000 147 3.4 17 0.4 15 22 39 5.72 3.0 Oliver Miller 61 1152 294 4.8 123 238 .517 48 79 .608 0 2 .000 306 5.0 87 1.4 47 63 90 9.20 5.5 Eric Montross 78 1828 339 4.3 159 349 .456 21 62 .339 0 0 .000 518 6.6 61 0.8 20 73 77 9.01 6.5 Martin Muursepp 42 348 156 3.7 54 131 .412 44 70 .629 4 24 .167 67 1.6 20 0.5 12 11 18 3.45 2.0 Tony Dumas 24 278 86 3.6 33 96 .344 16 25 .640 4 28 .143 16 0.7 25 1.0 10 2 16 2.13 0.9 Stacey King 11 103 24 2.2 11 22 .500 2 7 .286 0 0 .000 27 2.5 1 0.1 2 1 6 3.00 0.6 Greg Dreiling 40 389 80 2.0 34 74 .459 11 27 .407 1 1 1.000 76 1.9 11 0.3 8 7 9 2.93 1.7 Fred Roberts 12 40 22 1.8 6 15 .400 10 14 .714 0 0 .000 10 0.8 0 0.0 0 1 5 1.25 0.3 Stevin Smith This was the 2nd yr (16games) Name G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP REB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO EFF AV Michael Finley 82 3395 1763 21.5 675 1505 .449 326 416 .784 87 244 .357 438 5.3 405 4.9 132 30 219 19.87 12.2 Shawn Bradley 64 1822 731 11.4 300 711 .422 130 180 .722 1 3 .333 518 8.1 60 0.9 51 214 96 15.89 8.6 Hubert Davis 81 2371 898 11.1 350 767 .456 97 116 .836 101 230 .439 169 2.1 157 1.9 43 5 88 9.23 6.8 Samaki Walker 41 1027 365 8.9 156 321 .486 53 99 .535 0 1 .000 302 7.4 24 0.6 30 40 61 11.93 4.9 Khalid Reeves 82 1950 717 8.7 248 593 .418 165 213 .775 56 152 .368 185 2.3 230 2.8 80 10 130 8.52 6.4 Robert Pack 12 292 94 7.8 33 98 .337 25 36 .694 3 6 .500 34 2.8 42 3.5 20 1 38 6.42 1.2 Erick Strickland 67 1505 511 7.6 199 558 .357 65 84 .774 48 163 .294 161 2.4 167 2.5 56 8 106 6.25 4.4 Kurt Thomas 5 73 37 7.4 17 44 .386 3 3 1.000 0 0 .000 24 4.8 3 0.6 1 0 10 5.60 0.6 A.c. Green 82 2652 600 7.3 242 534 .453 116 162 .716 0 4 .000 668 8.1 123 1.5 78 27 68 13.29 9.0 Chris Anstey 41 680 240 5.9 92 231 .398 53 74 .716 3 16 .188 157 3.8 35 0.9 31 27 41 7.05 3.3 Martin Muursepp 41 600 233 5.7 83 191 .435 51 67 .761 16 38 .421 114 2.8 30 0.7 29 14 29 6.51 3.1 Eric Riley 39 544 139 3.6 56 135 .415 27 36 .750 0 1 .000 133 3.4 22 0.6 15 46 37 5.90 2.8 Bubba Wells 39 394 128 3.3 48 116 .414 31 43 .721 1 6 .167 68 1.7 34 0.9 15 4 31 3.54 1.9 Adrian Caldwell 1 3 0 0.0 0 0 .000 0 0 .000 0 0 .000 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0.00 0.0 About statistical abbreviations That same season with that same talent, nelson went 16-50. The next entire season Nelson went 19-31 in the strike yr. What did he do to deserve 3 yrs that Cleamons didn't beside him being the gm? As much as people praise Nelson's coaching genius, he put this current team together thats soft as butter. How many conference finals have Nelson been to? How many has he won? George karl sucked his first go round and rebounded with the sonics, now all of a sudden he's a good coach. I'm just saying i think he deserves a chance with a decent team and talent. Like it was said, if the right chance doesn't come along, he'll stay in La and collecting rings.
So he sucked as a head coach with Dallas (and he had talent there) and he wins one game as a substitute and all of the sudden he is Mr. Capable and is head and shoulders above Mr. Mean?
Crash, You are more in tune with Dallas matters than me so fill me in on one thing. Was it b/c of Jim Cleamons that the Mavs dealt Kidd or was it b/c of Don Nelson? I remember Don Nelson making asinine comments to the effect of Sam Cassell being the equal of Jason Kidd so his rationale was that he got Mike Finley for free. Then after his debacle trade of sending Cassell, Jackson, Gatling and a bunch of others I cant even recall for Bradley and Pack was that he would "build" his team around Bradley and Pack. Just curious how Jim Cleamons was the causer of all this when a madman like Nelson was making the personnell decisions?
leebigez, First Kidd, Mashburn and Jackson were all traded in the same season, 96-97. Kidd was traded by Cleamons and the later two by Nellie. As I said in my first post, Cleamons did not get a fair shake in Dallas. However, the players did turn him off at a very early stage during his stay in Dallas. That is a fact and it should not be ignored when considering him as possible coach. I don’t blame Jim for what happened with the Mavs while he was there because he worked for the absolute most unqualified GM that was ever briefly apart of the NBA. I don’t remember the guy’s name but he was one of Ross Perot Jrs friends and he had zero basketball experience other than being a fan. Making him acting GM would have been equivalent to the Rockets making you or I acting GM. Unfortunately Jim publicly signed off on the trade and is the one that eventually gets credit for trading Kidd. Of course Kidd goes to Phoenix and instantly turns from malcontent in Dallas to all-star caliber, play-off point guard in Phoenix. One of the first things Don Nelson did when he took over the coaching job in Dallas was to criticize the trade. What you have to remember about Don Nelson’s first couple of years in Dallas is that he basically traded away the entire team. Even the players that Cleamons got from Phoenix did not really get much of an opportunity to play for Cleamons since Nelson was hired shortly after the trade. Also, I am not sure where you are getting your stats but Michael Finley, A.c. Green and Martin Muursepp did not play for Cleamons in his first year. Finley and Green came to Dallas along with Sam Cassell in the Jason Kidd trade during the 96-97 season. Martin Muursepp never played for Cleamons, he was traded to Dallas along with Sasha Danilovic for Jamal Mashburn after Don Nelson was hired during the same season that Jason Kidd and Jim Jackson were traded. There appears to be several other non-facts in your stats but with out doing some research I am not sure what those are. One being that I don’t think Samaki Walker was drafted until 96-97 season which would have been Jim’s second there for Samaki could not have played during Jim’s first season. All of this is irrelevant I know, but the fact is that Jim was not able to communicate with the players while he was there and the players did not believe in the triangle. We have a very young and heard-headed team and I want a coach with some skins on the wall and not a recycled failure.
Nelson was not apart of the Mavs organization when they traded Kidd. As a matter of fact Nellie was never really a big fan of Cassell which is one of the reasons that Sam never got a chance in Dallas. Nellie had commented that he would have liked to have had the opportunity to coach Kidd. I remember similar comments being made but I don’t remember if Perot Jr, his buddy GM or Cleamons, made them.
You touched upon all the important points of triangle. However, you have to realize that Rudy T is not capable of implementing this scheme. Someone tough and willing to discpline players is the one that's capable of coaching the triangle. I agreed with you that Rox has almost all the pieces of running a successful triangle. The key to triangle really is teamwork and trust. I used to watch the bulls games when MJ was playing, the player with the ball doesn't even need to see if there's a player behind him, he just throws a behind the head pass to a trailing teammate that throws it down. We can't have Yao playing high post and other guys not moving to create space and easy scoring opportunity. Another important point is that we don't have a guard that's capable of seeing good place to pass the ball too (passing instinct). IMHO, the triangles that lakers run is not half as fluid or powerful as the one runs in MJ's Bulls team.
Crash and leebigez, Both of you have some great input into the Dallas situation... Only 1 problem Crash, you are leaving out some info. As you stated The GM at that time did not a lot about the basketball affairs, his background was in finance. At the time their was a lot of bickering in the front office and not a lot of people supported Cleamons as the coach. But before we get to the problems with the players and their attitude you have to go back 2 years before that to find out where the real problem started. The year that Mashburn was drafted Buckner was the coach and again he was not fully supported by upper management. So a quick overview goes like this... Mashburn starts crying to media, doesn't listen to anyone, starts complaing about Jim Jackson and complains about playing time. So instead of upper management getting behind Buckner and backing him up, they back Mashburn. Which to me was a crop of.... well you know. So basically our cancer is born and is getting ready to grow. Now we come to Cleamons, he is brought in to bring discipline to the team. They draft Jason Kidd and Cleamons is trying to bring some order to the team... But unfortuantely upper management strikes again. Now you have 3 potential superstars who think they are better than the other. So they did not like the triangle offenese, because it focused on PASSING the ball to EVERYONE. So Cleamons who inherits a team full of cancer does what in doctor does... He starts cutting the cancer out of the team. So now upper management is disgusted about the teams record without giving the coach a chance to actually prove himself. So now they bring in Don Nelson to the picture (and the plot thickens). The first thing that Nelson states is that he DOES NOT WANT TO COACH... Wel now Cleamons is being put on stage to perform, knowing that Nelson has plans of letting him go regardless of what he does....... So basically Cleamons never was giving a fair shot... But I believe if the Rockets uppper management would back Cleamons the way that they have backed Rudy. Cleamons would do a great job here in H-Town.
Cleamons coached Kidd for 22 games before he was traded and mashburn about 37 games before he was traded. The next season he was fires 14 games into the season. How can you trade away good players and even though you did get Finley back in return and not give the guy at least another yr. Tim Floyd was given what 4 yrs and even Cowens was given another chance after he quit in Charlotte. I just think his time on the bench around Phil and is known as a disciplinarian would be very,very good for this team. If the Rockt ran the triangle, we wouldn't be talking about moving steve to the 2 or trading cat.
T_Man, Dick Motta was the coach after Quinn Buckner not Jim Cleamons. For one season things looked to be turning around. Unfortunately both Jason Kidd and Jim Jackson stopped being friends because of Toni Braxton and the locker room split. Motta was then fired and Jim Cleamons took over. Something else to remember is that Jim Cleamons took over with a new owner and a wanna be GM. All of the problems that happened with the Mavs were certainly not his fault but he was not able to get the players to buy into his system at all. leebigez, I need to correct myself about Jim Cleamons. While Nellie was hired and made the Mashburn and Jackson trades he did them, as a GM while Cleamons was still the coach. But Nellie was hired as GM after the Kidd trade so he had nothing to do with that and he did fire Cleamons the following year and took over himself.
Crash, It sounds like your main point is that Cleamons wasnt given a fair chance, but in the chance he got, he simply could not get the players to buy into the traingle? Is this correct? In Houston, I dont think it would really be as much of an issue. Yao Ming is the ideal big man for the triangle offense as I pointed out in my earlier post and is one of the most coachable players in the NBA. In addition, Steve Francis could probably be molded into the appropriate perimeter role for this offense though I agree it could take some time for that. In Dallas, the talent simply was not a good fit for this type of offense. Combine that with all the theatrics you pointed out, and you can see why things didnt work out for Cleamons. Its no question that there is risk involved in making this type of hire, but it is worth it imo. That being said, based on Doc's info I would be shocked if Rudy does not return next season.
Your right. He could not get the players to buy into the system. But, he did not get a fair shot in Dallas. As a matter of fact I think he walked into the worst of all possible situations when he hired on in Dallas. He had a young team, a new owner and a rookie gm that had never been anything more than a fan before taking over as GM. I believe the GM's name was Frank Zackanelly or something like that. Unfortunately I don't think Nelson bought into the system when he took over as GM either and that all but killed any chance Cleamons had of succeeding. All of that being said he still looked lost on the court half of the time and the players just did not believe in him. That is my main reason for not wanting him. I would like to see Jim get another chance in the NBA but with a veteran team, maybe the Lakers if Phil retires at the end of the year but not a young team.
