This message really made me think... If any of the Christians here would like to take the time to read it and comment, I would appreciate it. Thanks Isaiah 53:8 KJV He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. In this prophecy of the coming Christ, God asked an important question, a question that few Christian leaders even try to address. Most of our Christian leaders are too absorbed in declaring their own generation. We see this every day in the flood of publications that are sent to us labeled John Doe Ministries, Apostle or Prophet John Doe, etc. In the middle of all these voices that are actively promoting and endorsing their own ministries in their own generation, the voice of God still asks: “Who shall declare his generation?” Let us try. His Generation The generation of Jesus began about 30AD with a relatively young rabbi walking through the coastal cities of Galilee. He preached a message not unlike John the Baptist’s message: a message that would become known as the Gospel, or “Good News.” Twelve men, varying in age within about twenty years of Jesus, joined Him as His Apostles. We want to declare His generation and what became of it. Jesus’ generation lasted for about 70 years (30AD to 100AD). They were a generation of about thirteen men who changed the known world. They never lost faith, they never lost focus, and they never lost the passion required to spread this “good news.” They faced severe opposition from their fellow countrymen, and they thrived during a time of great persecution. They did not have all the answers, yet they were able to leave some of the richest writings ever produced, and the reason why we are able to assemble and worship God is completely the result of their lives’ work. They were not even remotely similar to today’s popular Christian leaders, who focus on the material aspects of their lives and ministries. Instead, they were a ragamuffin band, a ‘base’ sort of ignoble birth trying to convince the world to believe in something that the established institutional religions of the day considered heresy. Jesus, a sort of anti-religious-establishment rebel, seemed to burn every bridge with the religious leaders of the day in a continual barrage of disparaging remarks directed at them. His notoriety and disrepute was sealed with His humiliating and disgraceful criminal death on the cross. Jesus seemed determined to make faith in and acceptance of Him a near impossibility. In fact, everything that could go wrong, or be wrong, was wrong. They had to convince the world that the execution of their leader was not a mistake. They had to explain why only the social rejects followed Him. They had to explain why Jesus was failed to be at par with the accepted interpretations of prophecy by all legitimate Jewish leaders. But perhaps their greatest challenge was to undo the nagging conspiracy theory that Jesus, being born in the “goat pasture” of Nazareth, was nothing more than a fraud. These original followers viewed and practiced Christianity in a completely different light than most who say they practice it today. What the original followers observed was not religion. They saw themselves as the disciples of a Jewish rabbi (teacher), who was also the Son of God. Therefore, when they talked about believing in Christ, they didn’t just believe in His deity but also in what He taught. Christianity was the means for salvation. It was a way of living. For the most part, there were no “deified” epistles of Paul in widespread publication. There existed only the words of their Master, and they were willing to die as a result of living them out. Ideas of church meetings and tithing as you find them exercised today did not exist among the first believers: “They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. (Acts 2:44-47, NIV).” Scriptures like this serve to demonstrate that they took the words of their teacher at face value. When Jesus said, “If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me (Matthew 19:21),” then that is what they tried to do. There was no three to ten percent tithe. They were His servants, and everything belonged to Him. Today we have left the original vision and the teaching of Christ to serve and follow a “church.” It is not the Master that most Christians serve but their church and its leaders. The men who followed Jesus were unique. They were an anomaly for every other generation of Christian leaders that were to follow. It is safe to say that NO other generation of Christian leaders followed the example taught by Christ and practiced by His original followers. These original followers did not compete for preeminence or control. They did not split into isolated factions of believers who went about their own business regardless of what the others thought. In fact, thirty years after the death of Christ, we find these men still operating as a team (rather than as individuals), burning with the same passion of world evangelism. What was different with them? Why were they such an anomaly? The Pursuit of Truth Today’s form of Christianity is practiced by exerting far too much energy in pursuit of truth. The truth that contemporary Christians pursue is NOT the truth Jesus taught or His disciples followed. Most of what is touted as truth today is NOTHING more than dogma. Jesus left His disciples with two instructions and many questions. They knew they were to wait in Jerusalem until they received power, and they also knew they were supposed to “go… into all the world, and preach the gospel (Mark 16:15 KJV).” But this was far from telling them the revelation of the New Testament, how to establish the church and set leadership in place, or how to mentor believers. Jesus did not explain to them the revelation of the Gentiles being grafted in, the Law being superseded, the gifts of the Spirit, or how the New Testament fulfilled the Old Testament. He never dwelt on a diagnosis of how to have faith or how to pray, He simply commanded His disciples to do so. Jesus did not teach His disciples everything because they were not supposed to be about having all the answers. Jesus knew by what had happened to the Jews and the Law, any instructions He gave them would become an institution and only serve to negate His true teaching and the influence of the Holy Spirit. He also knew that the answers men seek in pursuit of truth are not the truth but dogma. This is how the contemporary form of Christianity has become so vastly different from the Christianity Jesus and His disciples taught. Today, everything has to be understood and defined, and when we do this, we institutionalize everything. The operation of spiritual gifts, ministries, meetings, faith, and even love have been defined and redefined until they have become institutions, and while we were doing so, we managed to make all these things into “the truth” and, by extension, our religion. The men who were part of His generation did not have all the answers, but then they knew that they did not need all the answers. They could afford to wait years, decades, even their entire lifetimes for answers, if necessary, because they already had everything they needed to accomplish the goal that Jesus set. The dogma, doctrine, analysis, and (let’s face it) the “hogwash” that is pontificated from most pulpits today, along with all the theatrics, would cause the men of His generation to shake their heads and walk away in disgust. To them, Christianity was never meant to become the institution that it has become. These men didn’t go about to establish a list of doctrines, a statement of faith, a charter, or a church constitution. These things may be part of our denominations and other contemporary churches, but they were not part of the Christianity they knew. Yet today, many Christians go no further into their spiritual lives than the endless and mindless debates about their misdirected ideas concerning truth. To the men of His generation, Christianity was not dogma, doctrine, or institution. It was a revelation: a personal revelation that was revealed when necessary and as the situation dictated. It gave all power to determine a course of action to the Holy Spirit, not to the established dogma of a denomination. Consider the events that transpired in Acts 9 when Peter was on the housetop praying. The Spirit of God spoke to him through a vision. He saw a great sheet full of unclean animals and heard the voice of God instructing him to kill and eat. Following that, men from the Gentile house of Cornelius arrived bidding him to come and tell their master about this salvation that Peter preached. In an institutionalized Christian culture like ours, dogma and doctrine take precedence over revelation. As a result, there is no opportunity for the Holy Spirit to correct that which is in error. Therefore, not only do dogma and doctrine replace the Holy Spirit, but they also ensure that the Holy Spirit can never have any effect. Many Christian leaders would argue that this form of teaching will only breed more “weirdoes” coming around with all types of revelations. However, “weirdoes” will abound regardless. Furthermore, all the doctrines these Christian leaders value, all the customs they cherish, and all the dogma they hold as “truth” is nothing more than the result of someone else’s personal revelation before them. All their attempts to replace revelation with dogma are simply veiled attempts to maintain control and status quo. Revelation is the reason why Christian music “can” be so inspiring. True Christian music is some of the deepest form of revelation. Some of the most inspiring music has come from artists who were going through the most trying times of their entire lives. As they reached out to God, their hearts began to sing, and words and music were born that eventually touched the lives of millions. Sad to say, far too often this music (the revelation of the Spirit) is copyrighted, marketed, and sold like so much other Christian paraphernalia. It is an insult to the Holy Spirit. An Example Of Servitude The following passage we came across on a pastor’s website. Granted, it is taken out of context, but it nevertheless demonstrates how men today see the office of ministry: “I am one of the elite cadre of persons who has the right to be addressed as ‘Reverend’ (‘Worthy of reverence; revered. A member of the clergy.’) This distinction is mine because I successfully completed a three-year graduate program in theology (I'm also a ‘Master of Divinity’) and passed a theological exam before a body of ministers and elders. Upon passing that examination I was ordained and granted the privilege of being addressed as ‘Reverend.’ This distinction also entitled me to be the pastor of a church: its preacher, the one who oversees the church ordinances, and the one privileged to ‘pronounce the benediction.’ According to the church and the world, I am one set apart. I am a member of the clergy, and my title distinguishes me as such.” Men today have come to view “ministry” as an exalted position in the church at large. They pay lip service by referring to themselves as “servants,” but the truth is that in their attitudes and thoughts, they see themselves as the leader, the final authority, the decision maker, and, thus, the “boss.” Contrast the arrogance of this proclamation to the fact that Jesus, “made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men (Philippians 2:7).” Jesus demonstrated to them the marks of a true servant of God. He had no self-ambition or self-glory. He demonstrated to them that the greatest man of God was not the one who had rule and authority over others, but he who could rule over himself to become the servant to all. Most ministries see themselves as centers of God’s authority. But God’s authority is not manifested in the ability to rule or command others. The ability to rule over others is not the authority from God but from the nature of man. Jesus said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave - just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many (Matthew 20:25-27, NIV).” Pastors and other Christian leaders who see themselves as the final authority in their churches do not know God. They are following an Old Testament institution of leadership and are thus not part of the generation of Christ. The example Jesus set for His disciples impacted their lives so profoundly that, even after thirty years, they continued to follow His example. So what is wrong with our generation? Why don’t today’s Christian leaders model the example of Christ? We are not just talking about denominationalism and Catholicism. Independents, end-timers, and especially those in the five-fold/prophetic movements are the most abusive of power. Many of the self-proclaimed prophets and apostles have no idea who God is, yet they claim to speak for Him. Their shameless acts of self-promotion, their claims that the authority they wield over people is the authority of the Holy Spirit, are reprehensible. Jesus summed up these leaders when he said, “They have their reward (Matthew 6:2).” This preoccupation with ministry, self-promotion, and personal authority is the reason there is no longer a brotherhood among Christian men today. It seems that every Christian leader has to be the boss, be recognized, and have his say. As a result, today’s ministries clutter the land like castles of various sizes and people are drawn to them. So promotional are their ministries that in our generation it is no longer Christ around whom believers rally but the churches and/or the ministries they support. It is estimated that the city (and outlying areas) nearest us (Grand Rapids, MI) has over a thousand churches. We are not suggesting that there are too many churches but rather that, in our generation, church and ministry have wrongfully become the focus and ultimate goal of believers. Conflict Of Interest Most Christians and pastors of institutional churches believe that they are serving God by faithfully supporting their churches. They see outward expressions like attendance and tithing as spiritual obligations upon which God smiles. They believe that by building and remodeling their churches to “draw more people,” somehow that equates to expanding the Kingdom of God. In short, they truly believe that any sacrifice and support they give to their local church is actually service to the Lord. If supporting the local church is supporting the kingdom of God, how is it that the goal of each local church is to draw members from other area churches? In short, the goal of each local church is to undermine the success of the others. Isn’t this a conflict of interest? When the goal becomes a church’s growth in size, number of people, finances, and influence, it is NO longer about God’s kingdom but of man’s. When church growth is the goal, then marketing is employed. None of the tactics employed for church growth is the work of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, when the goals center around a church, then the focus shifts from bringing people to Christ to bringing people to a church. One is not the fulfillment of the other. In addition, when pastors of a community work in a counter-productive manner toward other local churches in the interest of their own local church, they are not working in the interest of Christ. They are working in their own interest, for what is beneficial to them. The only way that pastors can justify this behavior is to claim that they either have all the truth or the biggest portion of it. As a result, each pastor (either subtly or blatantly) claims that their teaching and truth is superior to that of other area churches. In other words, each local church believes and attempts to prove that the other local churches are wrong. This is the exact strategy that most Christians use to prove that evolution is wrong. They claim that since each theory of evolution proves that the other theories are wrong, then the entire concept of evolution is nullified. If we apply this same strategy to Christianity, then we would be forced to conclude that since each church/ministry is out to prove the others wrong, the entire system of Christianity as practiced by our generation nullifies itself. Christians who believe they are serving God by serving their churches are involved in a conflict of interest, because the aspirations of church leaders are not expanding and furthering Christ’s kingdom but their own. Genesis 4:2-5 KJV 2 …And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. Abel brought to God a sacrifice while Cain brought to God his productivity. What we find in the institutional church system (which includes many of the end-time, prophetic/apostolic, house church, and five-fold ministry groups) is a movement toward productivity. They build buildings, publish books and sermons, have multiple weekly meetings, hold crusades, etc., and are, in general, busy with the needs of feeding their ministry kingdoms while the real work of the Lord is largely ignored. That is what Cain did. Cain worked hard in “his” field. He worked hard cultivating “his” vegetables. He toiled and sweated to produce fruit from “his” labors. But none of this was of any consequence to God: it was productivity for Cain’s own success. When you survey the impact of the institutional church and most named ministries (that is, ministries given the names of their founders), it becomes apparent that they do NOT have the “respect” of God. They are busy in their “own” fields growing their “own” vegetables, and like Cain, they expect God to endorse their efforts. But the lack of God’s power and presence in these churches/ministries is testimony that all their productivity is nothing more than a conflict of interest arising from their pursuit of what is only beneficial to them. The Paradigm Shift Acts 17:18-23 KJV 18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection. 19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is? 20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean. 21(For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.) 22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. 23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. The Greek word for “superstitious (Acts 17:22)” here is deisidaimonesteros. It comes from two Greek words: deilos, which means to be “fearful or to dread,” and daimon, which means “daemon or devil.” In the simplest terms, it is the fear of evil. The word “superstition” is “an irrational fear of what is unknown or mysterious, especially in connection with religion.” It is “a belief that is not based in reason or knowledge, but blindly accepted.” Quite often, those who are part of non-traditional churches and ministries compare the Athenians to today’s Christians who are trapped in the denominational church culture. We beg to differ. Denominational culture, though very intellectual, is rooted in orthodoxy. Rather than wanting to hear or tell “some new thing,” they push new things away. Their treasure is their dogma. Consequently, traditional (or institutional) churches are rather comparable to what Judaism was to early Christianity. Judaism was the orthodox form out of which Christianity came. Judaism viewed Christianity as “some new thing” and went about to protect its dogma. Like institutional churches, Judaism did not want to consider anything “new.” It wanted only to protect the knowledge and orthodoxy it already had. Paul encountered in Athens a completely different culture from the orthodoxy that he was accustomed to fighting. This culture was based on knowledge and fear. The Athenian philosophy was based primarily on the observation of nature and the (im)moral fiber of mankind. Unlike Judaism’s orthodoxy the goal of the Athenians was to discover a new revelation of ultimate truth. Luke observed that the Athenians “spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.” The Athenians spent their time in pursuit of the ultimate truth. When the pursuit of truth is paramount, the result will be a culture not unlike that found in Athens, where the deification of knowledge was universal. We find this same type of culture widespread among those coming out of the institutional churches. For them, there seems to be an elusive truth that is always just out of reach. Many contemporary Christians involved in the prophetic/apostolic, end time, five-fold ministry, and “out of church” movements have embraced the same ideology as the Athenians. They “spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.” The new catch phrases we hear so much coming from these various groups usually concern something they call “the paradigm shift.” There seems to be a preoccupation with the belief that what they have is never enough, that there remains some secret or revelation that will suddenly transform them into super Christians. So they continually search to find that “new thing.” They are constantly reading books and searching out ministries to teach them that “new thing” they are missing. Like the Athenians, they hunt for the ever-elusive knowledge that is above and beyond all other knowledge, thinking that knowledge is the answer. The scripture “ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth (2 Timothy 3:7),” which they generously apply to those in denominational churches, actually speaks directly to them. The orthodox (Judaism) and the liberals (Athenians) were both wrong. They were at opposite ends of the same scale. Paul said to the Athenians, “As I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.” But this is essentially the same as what John wrote concerning the Jews: “He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not (John 1:10-11).” This is reminiscent of the Ephesian and Laodicean churches found in the book of Revelation. The church at Ephesus was the first church Christ addressed, while the Laodicean church was the last. They were at opposite ends of the same spectrum, and both were ultimately given the same counsel. Most Christians in independent churches will readily maintain that denominational churches are the Laodicean church. If the Laodicean Christians are those in denominational churches, then the Ephesian church – the opposite extreme - are those in independent church groups (i.e., apostolic/prophetic, five-fold ministry, house church, etc.). Consider the message Jesus had for each of these churches: “Repent.” To the church at Ephesus, Jesus said, “Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent (Revelation 2:5),” and to the church of Laodicea, He said, “Be zealous therefore, and repent (Revelation 3:19).” Both churches at opposite extremes needed to return to the fulcrum point where Christ resides. It is true that traditional denominations are lost in their dogma, and that people who are most often attracted to denominations don’t care about knowledge. If they care about anything, it is their doctrine, when the service will be over, and how much they have to give. Most go through their week with hardly a second thought about church or God. The independents and “out of church-ers” are much the opposite. They are consumed with the pursuit of “new” knowledge. They see themselves having escaped into a “new” revelation and wonder how much more there is that remains undiscovered. They see denominations as a deception and often become consumed with seeing the conspiracy, the delusion, and the Anti-Christ. Their escape from deception takes them down a never-ending road in pursuit of truth. The problem with that road is that it most often takes them right back into the deception out of which they came – only at the other extreme. Therefore, the message of Jesus is the same for the “out of denomination-ers” as it is for those lost in denominational dogma: “Repent.” Neither is the better. They have both missed the mark. One misconstrues dogma for truth and the other is engaged in the never-ending pursuit of truth. The answer for today is to return to Christ. You found Him once. It was simple then. You can find Him again. All you need to do is what you did back then: repent. HIS GENERATION.... Ron Schwartz Oct 19, 2007 His Generation What Shall Become Of This Generation? [Updated 2007] October, 2007 Ron and Karen Schwartz “While praying, the Spirit of God spoke to my heart and asked, ‘What shall become of this generation?’ I was inexplicably shaken. It was so powerful that it caused me to weep, and I was unable to stop. For days following this event, I found myself deeply moved. It was as though the hand of God had touched me. It was as though God had spoken to me about something for which I found no words to articulate. It was as if, in an instant, I could see what Jesus and His disciples were like, how they lived, why they were as driven as they were, and how far from it was the Christianity I knew. In the weeks that followed, I found it increasingly difficult to talk to anyone or think about anything else. The question had changed my life. It caused me to quit thinking about church and Christianity as I knew it and begin seeing it through the eyes of those men who framed it.” – Ron Schwartz, 2004
The description of Jesus' disciples is WAY off. It highly reveres the disciples as having "never lost faith, they never lost focus, and they never lost the passion required to spread this “good news." But in the Bible, Jesus is frequently having to keep them on track with God's will. They FREQUENTLY would forget what God taught and Jesus kept having to smack 'em into place. That demonstrates how your run-of-the-mill human being can be so far off from what God wants (even for the disciples who hung out with Big J on a regular basis). Our nut-case Christian leaders of today are, in a way, similar. Many of them are really trying to do good, even if they're wacked out. Unfortunately, many of them are trying to exploit people's faith and that's a real disgrace. Christian monks and nuns of today are the true examples of Christianity. They give up ALL of their possessions (not just a Sunday tithe) and dedicate their entire lives to God. For the rest of us, however, we give in to worldly desires and do not want to sacrifice them in order to live the life that a monk lives. Those paragraphs about dogma, doctrine, the Holy Spirit and revelation were complete garbage. At any point in time in any of our lives, God has the ability to come to us in a dream and "reveal" something to us. He just doesn't. And if he did, nobody else would believe it. So what do they expect? Should we believe every nut that says God gave them a dream about killing a chicken? Some people believed it - now they're burned to a crisp in Waco. And Christian music is NOT revelation. If God wanted to reveal something to us (ALL of us) he would. 'Cause he can (that kinda comes with the territory of being omnipotent). Next, the article babbles on and on about how organized religion interferes with true Christian worship. I agree that that fact is true; however, when you have millions of people donating millions of dollars, and with so many thieves in the world, an organization is needed to help ensure that people's donations are really being applied in the name of God, and not just going into someone's bank account. Sadly, that wealth corrupts and you end up seeing lots of churches pocket the money instead of using it to help. This is why, in my opinion, Christians should NOT put money in the Church collection (other than a buck to help the church pay its electricity bill) and should, instead, give products or services directly to a group that really needs it. Yup - "everything has to be understood and defined, and when we do this, we institutionalize everything". Sure. That's because there are so many thieves in the world. Imagine if a stranger came up to you and said give me some of your money, and believe in all the stuff I'm gonna say. Trust me that I'm gonna use your money to help someone else and trust that what I tell you is gonna be true." No, no, no. People aren't gonna follow that. And they'd be stupid to. No, people are willing to give in the name of God, and they're willing to pour their heart into God, but people want to know that their money isn't being stolen and they want to clearly understand what they believe in. Yeah, it's true, Christianity was never meant to become the institution that it has become. But people aren't going to invest valuable money and time into something that isn't an institution. In fact, when did Jesus EVER take a collection of money from people? the text above then asks, why don't Christian leaders model the example of Christ? Well, like I said, even his disciples tried and failed at modeling their lives after JC. And if THEY failed, you know it's gotta be a tough thing to do for modern men. Also, when you put money in the mix, it can't continue without being institutionalized. ...more talk about Churches pulling people from other denominations. Yes, it's a conflict of interest. It's to be expected from today's lost Christian institutions and is one of the many reasons why I don't follow a specific denomination. All of the paradigm shift stuff I agree with. But even those who crave to be more knowledgeable about their Christianity turn their eyes from the scriptures that say wacked out things, so they're really only not-quite-as-bad as the institutionalized Christians. Repent. Uh... yeah... duhh... All Christians are supposed to repent. No big surprise there. "Their escape from deception takes them down a never-ending road in pursuit of truth. The problem with that road is that it most often takes them right back into the deception out of which they came – only at the other extreme" What's that suppossed to mean? And this article just assumes that non-denomination'ers have a never-ending quest for truth. That's not necessarily true, and I don't know where they come up with that. Speaking only for myself, I'm a non-denomintation'er and I don't seek truth much at all. The article seems to spend a lot of time talking about denominations, but only briefly talks about non-denoms, takes a slight jab at them, and then ends. On a side note... And I absolutely DON'T like the fact that the people who wrote this article use scripture quotes as ammunition to prove their points. And, really, they should stop reading the KJV version of the Bible and should switch over to the NIV, which is a MUCH better translation of the Christian Bible.
church is a good thing. it helps facilitate service (mainly) and a place to build up others. my relationship is with God, not a church. my church simply supports that relationship. if others get caught up in their church's culture moreso than their own personal covenant relationship with Christ, its up to them to realize it and fix it.
the church is a people...can be micro or macro. it's up to leaders within the church to let people know that church isn't buildings and sleek new programs. that the church should not resemble IN ANY WAY a country club where membership has its benefits. and yes...there's way too much dogma in the church. i do not read the Gospels and get the sense that Jesus was interested in establishing a new religion. i don't think he was particularly interested in building campaigns, either. but God uses all our mess anyway.
Well the Schwartzes certainly try to be like old times. They go to a house church and home school their six children. They don't want any institution involved in anything, I guess (except for his IT job). I disagree with his history a bit because there really was no unified message of Christianity until the 4th century in the West and the 7th in the East. Sure, the guy can try to say the message of Jesus and the Apostles was unified but there is no extant record of this except for the gospels...which were tracked and compiled by the various organizations that the writer does not like. Until the 4th century they mostly "fought" and called each other heathens and blasphemers. And, of course, Christianity would not exist today if "institutions" had not formed and preserved (sometimes altering) the documents. I agree with WS&C, though, monks and nuns in convents and monasteries are the most "true" followers of Christ today.
My question has always been why so many people are so interested in criticizing and tearing down other people's ministries, rather than pursuing God's purpose for their own lives. I can just imagine when we get to heaven, God asking "how many people's ministries did you destroy with your words and actions?", they'd be like "Five, including that guy who won 10,000 souls for you". Then he'd say "how many souls did you bring into my kingdom" and they'd say, "None", and he'd be like, "well done, my good and faithful servant." Not.
I think tearing down bogus ministries would be following Christ's example. I also don't picture heaven to be a "place" where an interview between God and people take place in any literal sense. As the bible says the kingdom of heaven is inside of us right now.
really? i don't think so at all. Jesus didn't retreat from society and culture. he engaged it. I see in him radical transformation for others. I don't think that would have happened had Jesus and the disciples decided to go live in a commune somewhere away from it all. now mother theresa?? that's a different story. that's engaging. don't get me wrong...i'm all for time alone in meditation and prayer. all for silence. and making room for that in your life.
Yeah. He never went into the desert or anything. The Buddha started a commune. That kind of led to something. And you are right. The Crusades were quite engaging.
Perhaps I was too cavalier in my expression but you also sell them a little short. I meant in terms of religious practice and giving up material goods nd not becoming cash cows. But they are not really fully disconnected from society and for centuries did quite a bit of good. They were/are just smaller communities reaching out to small areas around their community. Am I making sense? I can never tell.
I think the author was speaking of how after the day of Pentecost the disciples seemed to follow Christ's example closely. (not in their blundering times with Jesus) The thing that was thought provoking for me was the contrast between following Jesus in example and following church dogma and ministry leaders. I don't want my church to follow my idea, I want them to follow Jesus Christ.
I never said he never went into the desert. He did for 40 days. He didn't spend his life out there. The Crusades were about 1200 years later.
