2004-2005 NBA MVP?

I think Shaq is the clear cut choice, not only because he turned the Heat into title contenders, but because the Lakers have absolutely crashed and burned after he left.

In contrast, the Mavericks are still playing at the same level they were before Nash left.

 

For Duncan - Spurs won 59 games. When injured the Spurs weren't nearly as good. He's still the best player in the league.

For Nash - The Suns won 62 games. When he was injured the Suns were below average. 34 game improvement over last season, 34!

For Shaq - The Heat won 59 games. When he was injured the Heat were still a good team. Statistically, it was a down year for him, still led the Heat in rebounds and blocks. Finished the season on the bench, either taking nights off or with real injuries.

For Dirk - The Mavericks won 58 games. When he was injured the Mavericks were pretty average. Led his team in points, rebounds, and blocks.

For AI - The Sixers won 43 games. When he was injured the Sixers are a horrible team. One of the best statistical seasons of all time leading his team in points, assists, and steals.

I would like to see Dirk win it. Tim Duncan, to me, deserves it every year. It would be nice to see Nash win it. Shaq is the odds on favorite even though Wade deserves a lot of credit.

 

While I'm happy to see Nash getting so recognition, I can't help but feel he's the most overrated MVP candidate in years. Only plays on one side of the court, and is surrounded by ridiculous amounts of offensive talent. They certainly need him for things to click, but he needs them just as bad.

Contrast this with Tim, Iverson, KG, LeBron, or even AK47, guys who are the heart and soul of their squad. The funnny thing is, none of them are really having MVP years, even Tim. AI/KG/LeBRon have been spectacular, but it hasn't translated into much team success.

It's a real goofy year, because there isn't a clear cut choice. Even Shaq has Wade, and the team hasn't skipped a beat when he's been out or quiet. Shaq certainly represents the swing in the Heat/Laker fortunes, which speaks volumes, but he hasn't been the dominant force you'd want to see in an MVP.

Honestly? Dirk seems to be a forgotten man in this race. Dallas is #4 in the entire league (behind Suns, Heat, Spurs), and he's far and away the reason why. #4 in scoring (only AI, Kobe, and LeBron above him) and #9 in rebounds.

I want my MVP to be from one of the top 4 or 5 teams in the league and be one of the top performers in the NBA as well. Ideally, top 2 performer and on a top 2 team. Michael Jordan system.

That gives me:
-->Amare (#5, PPG) or Nash (#1 APG), Suns (#1)
-->Shaq (#6 RPG) or Wade (#9 PPG, #10 APG), Heat (#2)
--->Duncan (would be #4 in RPG, but has missed too many games), Spurs (#3)
--->Nowitzki, Dal (above)

Ugh. Put a gun to my head, and I give it to Shaq. Dirk is my #2 vote, then Nash, then Duncan. Iverson after that. Wade and Amare can fistfight for the 4th runner up spot.

Evan

 

I enjoy watching the Suns' games, but Nash is a 1 trick pony. He passes the ball and pushes the tempo, and does it very well. He's not a big scorer, he's not a defender, he's not an incredible shooter, he's not even the best pure PG out there in recent years (Kidd, Flopton, even Payton in his prime I'd take first). You don't plan your gameplan around trying to stop Steve Nash.

Shaq, on the other hand, is a beast. He demands double and triple teams, shoots 60%, rebounds, and changes the entire gameplan of opposing teams. You have to contain Shaq, period. I'd take a healthy Duncan first I think, but Shaquille deserves the MVP this year.

 

It's incredible to me that the Mavs won 58 games - didn't realize they had such a great record. This should hurt Nash in the voting, but I don't think it will. He'll probably still finish ahead of Dirk, which is a gross injustice.

To me it should be:

1) Shaq
2) Dirk
3) Duncan

 

Sure, he has offensive talent around him, but he's the one that made everything click this year. He has the "intangibles" that all coaches look for. They had absolutely no direction last season. Nash creates such easier shots for everybody by pushing the ball and making pinpoint passes at the right time. He has surpassed Jason Kidd as the best point guard in the NBA. It's not like Shaq is playing with the 93-94 Rockets, either. He's not even the leading scorer on his team. Duncan probably has the best all around supporting cast (offense and defense) of any team in the NBA. Plus, when you take a look at the top teams with and without their MVP candidate, the Suns are by far the worst.

....but, a true point guard hasn't won an MVP since Magic Johnson, so he probably won't win it. My heart is with Nash, my money is on Shaq, with Dirk Diggler and McGrady as darkhorses...

SamCassell...Nash isn't an incredible shooter? .502 from the field and .431 from the arc suggest otherwise. Shaq was demanding double and triple teams when he was playing for Orlando. Yao Ming gets doubled all the time without the ball, but he's no MVP candidate. Sure, you might not plan to stop Steve Nash when you play the Suns, but you do want to stop their fast break, which is powered mostly by Steve Nash. You also want to keep Marion from hitting three pointers....that he gets off Nash penetration...and I don't know if I've ever seen one person get as many alley oops from another player that Amare gets from Nash.

When Miami made the trade for Shaq, they were instant favorites to come out of the East along with Detroit. Heck, the Heat probably would have made the playoffs this season with last year's team. When the Suns signed Nash, they were just a 29 win team that overpayed for an aging point guard. Would Phoenix have the league's best record with Stephon Marbury or Howard Eisley as their starting point guard? Doubt it...

Oh, and only one other team in NBA history has gone from less than 30 wins to more than 60 wins in one season, the 1980 Boston Celtics. Not many players can say that they did something that only Larry Bird has done...

 

Can't argue with this. But I think this is first time in quite a while Freak hasn't had TD as the choice, that closet Spurs fan

 

There is no probably about Miami making the playoffs without the trade. Last year they were a young team who made it into the 2nd round. It was Wade's and Odom's first time to the playoffs. I'd say without the trade they were already in the top three with Detroit and Indiana. I think the Heat with their current roster minus Shaq still makes the playoffs. Give Wade the credit he deserves instead of attributing all his success to Shaq. Shaq doesn't benefit him as much as you would think because Wade doesn't like to shoot threes. By Shaq being in the paint all the times, it can congest the lane and cause Wade's path to the basket to be more difficult.

By the Way:
Any player that you can't give the ball to at the end of a game(Shaq), does not deserve to win MVP. He says he can make them when they count. So, they only count less than 50% of the time? If he is as dominate as he thinks he is and the media seems to think, I want to see him put up 100 points or 52 rebounds in a game like Wilt Chamberlin did.

 

I'll play along here.

1) My view is, Nash represents a dying breed: a PG that actual plays his position correctly. The Phoenix system depends on a true PG that can get up and down the floor and distribute. There is no other such player on their team (Barbosa is the shoot 1st type). No one to fill in when Nash is out --> the wheels fall off.

2) Their 03/04 season was uncharacteristicly bad, and not a valid indicator of where the team should have been. The year prior, with virtually the same lineup, they were a 46-win team that scared the fool out of the Spurs in the first round. Why were they so bad last year? Personally, I think it had a lot to do with Cancer #3 running the point. He 'redeemed' himself in 02/03, and went back to being the locker room ebola that the Knicks are suffering with now.

3) I look at Nash for MVP and compare his resume with Kidd's 2002 bid. It's a pale comparison. Kidd truely lifted a patchwork lineup, with a rookie Jefferson and (for all intents and purposes a rookie as well) Martin. Half the total talent as this Suns cast at best. And shook off a real losing cloud that had been over the team for decades. That was a turn around. And it was tons tougher to not credit Kidd for that. To really drive it home: would this Suns team, armed with a 2002 Kidd, do any worse?

4) Nash took Stoudemire, Joe Johnson, Richardson, and Marion, and lifted their games and got them to be a 60 win team. Shaq did (very nearly) the same with Wade, E Jones, D Jones and Haslem. Who did more with less?
The Phoenix 4 I named: 73.5 PPG last year, 77.4 this year
The Miami 4: 47.8 last year, 59.3 this year

Evan

 

My choices would be:

1) Nash
2) Dirk
3) Shaq
4) T-Mac
5) Ray Allen

I think it will come out like this:

1) Shaq
2) Nash
3) Dirk
4) Duncan
5) T-Mac

 

You can't discount somebody's season just because of their teammates. If the sole deciding factor for MVP was based on quality (or lack of) of teammates, then 15 of the past 21 MVP's should have never gotten the award. Garnett had all stars in Sprewell and Cassell, Shaq had a future hall of famer in Kobe, Malone had the greatest point guard of all time in Stockton, Jordan had a top 50 NBA player in Pippen, Magic had Worthy and Jabbar, and Larry Bird was part of the one of the greatest frontcourts in NBA history with McHale and Parish.

Basketball is a team game, and the name of the award is MVP, which means the player that means the most to his team. The fact is that Shaq took a playoff team to the best record in a weaker conference, and Nash led a lottery team to the best record in a stronger conference. 42 wins is greater than 29 wins, no matter how you look at it...

 

You're still dodging the fact that this Suns team (minus Nash, plus Starbury) WAS in the playoffs the year prior, and that last year's Miami team had Odom and Butler on it as main cogs, neither of which remain.

Nash didn't walk in and save a sad-sack, talentless team. He's been the high octane gas for a sports car. Shaq made this Heat team a powerhouse.

It is a team game, but Most Valuable Player is not a team award.

In the end though, it's a tough call on this year's award.

Evan

 

Nash.
Dirk 2nd.
Shaq 3rd.
Honorable mention: TMc, RAllen

 

I wouldn't call a 44 win team that was never more than 9 games over .500 and was 36-34 at one point a "sports car"...maybe a late model Ford Taurus.

...and that same team minus Amare was 36-46. What does that mean? If anything, the Suns were a team without direction and leadership, and Nash provided that leadership. You can't compare last season's Suns team to this one.

I agree that Shaq will win it, but Nash deserves his due. It should be an interesting vote...

 

I've seen this cited before, but what about the converse? Dallas last year won 52 games with Steve Nash. Without him this year, and with Jason Terry as his replacement, they've won 58. LA last year was in the NBA Finals with Shaq, this year they're out of the playoffs.

And sure the Heat were considered a contender when they signed Shaq - they'd added a proven MVP candidate. He's done exactly what was expected of him, or better, which is tremendous when you consider the expectations and the way defenses are geared. When the Suns signed Nash they weren't expected to do much because, frankly, Nash wasn't that great a player last year. Or the year before, or the year before that, or any other year in his career. He was simply a good PG on a good team. Maybe it's not just him making his teammates better, maybe it's also his great-shooting, athletic teammates making him look good too. If he proves he can sustain greatness over the long term, and not just for a season, then he'll get other shots at MVP.

 

Nash has been the ultimate playmaker this year, but he only plays on one side of the court. He doesnt play any defense so I dont understand why he is getting so much attention this year.

SNash is not the only addition they made.
QRich signed with the Suns and is having a career year.
Amare hampered by injuries last year is picking up where he left off and then some.
JJohnson has been developing nicely every season with the Suns.

Nash fell into the right situtation and at the right time. This doesnt take anything away from him as an excellent PG but I think we are heaping too much credit for their turnaround on Nash.

Shaq dominates both ends of the floor and when I think MVP they need to have a complete game.

Offense / Defense

critics ragged on Marbury's number because he could score but didnt play any defense. Im just curious why they overlook that for Nash.

If teammates werent taken into consideration Shaq would have been MVP a few more times. However, lots of critics felt he had too much help in Kobe and a decent cast. What are they thinking about the Suns? 3 All Stars and the 3pt shooting champion?

J

 

MVP is a one year thing. It should have nothing to do with what you have done in your career. And will you people wake up and notice that the lakers lost a whole lot more off of last years team than just Shaq. Yes with Shaq in LA they were going to be in the playoffs, but they weren't going to win a championship. LA lacks heart. Kobe was the only one on his team trying. Heck, Hamblin didn't even want to be the head coach. How can you expect a team to suceed with players and a head coach who don't care.

 

I look at the Shaq vs Nash comparison this way....

Take Shaq away from Lakers...they suck...and he makes his team into the best in the East.

Take Nash away from Mavericks...they are still good without him...He did make pheonix better but i think any PG that is a pass first guy like a brevon knight, andre miller, jason kidd type could have turned the suns around and made them this good with the players they have and the running they do.

Im going with Shaq.

 

That's what happens when your non-convicted felon superstar runs off not one but two hall of fame coaches and one of the best centers of all time.