1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

  2. Watching NBA Action
    Can former Rocket Eric Gordon and the Suns bounce back against the Timberwolves? Come join Clutch as we're watching NBA playoff action live!

    LIVE: NBA Playoffs!
    Dismiss Notice
Welcome LIVE NBA ACTION

The reasons for our success are the reasons for our failure

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Will, Dec 16, 2015.

Tags:
Page 1 of 4
  1. Will

    Will Clutch Crew
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    5,061
    Likes Received:
    9,013
    Most of us are shocked by the team’s collapse since last season. Same players, same coaches. What happened?

    Don’t pin it on Josh Smith. He cost us as much in chucks, TOs, and missed FTs as he gave us. We played fine without him or Prigs for half the season. And Beverley and Motiejunas were out at the end, when we made our run.

    Is it Harden’s love life? No Team USA summer to get him in shape? Maybe.

    But the simplest explanation is that what’s hurting us now are the same things that helped us before. It’s just that last year, everything was going so well that we didn’t have to face the downside.

    Look at how Morey built this team. His job was to get to contender level without high draft picks. How did he manage it? The key acquisitions were Harden and Howard. Many of us were shocked and delighted that we got these guys. But there’s a reason why the Thunder chose Durant and Westbrook over Harden. And there’s a reason why, after a season in L.A., Howard wanted out.

    I’ll put the proposition to you this way: If Harden had been a more complete player, we would not have been able to get him. And if Howard had been the superstar his fans were waiting for, he would have done better, been happier, and stayed in L.A.

    We were surprised to get these guys. Now we’re surprised they’ve fallen off. Maybe the happy surprise and the unhappy surprise cancel each other out. Maybe, all along, the likelihood of disappointment was baked in.

    You could say the same about McHale. I never understood how the team played as well as it did under him the past two years. That was especially true in last season’s clutch regular-season games and in our playoff run. Then all of us were taken aback by this season’s horrendous start. You can point to injuries or Ty Lawson, but those factors don’t really explain our dismal confidence and effort.

    Maybe it’s all connected. McHale kept his guys loose. When things were going well, the looseness made them better. When things went downhill, the looseness made them worse. They lacked the structure to stabilize themselves.

    And now they have no leaders to pull them together. They never did. Harden wasn’t that guy. Howard wasn’t either. If they had been, Morey wouldn’t have been able to get them.

    So suck it up, Clutchfans. We have the team our GM was able to build. For better, and for worse.
     
    #1 Will, Dec 16, 2015
    5 people like this.
  2. ksny15

    ksny15 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    14,766
    Likes Received:
    7,409
    Yes another lets blame it all on James thread. We for sure need more of thses
     
    #2 ksny15, Dec 16, 2015
  3. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    89,698
    Likes Received:
    43,197
    Philosophical as ever and well put.

    Our hands have been tied times again.
     
    #3 daywalker02, Dec 16, 2015
  4. Play07

    Play07 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    4,973
    Likes Received:
    244
    Nice post
     
    #4 Play07, Dec 16, 2015
  5. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    25,522
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Yeah, if anyone is at fault, it's Les. Should have just gone Philly and sucked up his pride. Then pick who you want, not what you can get.
     
    #5 RV6, Dec 16, 2015
  6. sammy

    sammy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2002
    Messages:
    18,949
    Likes Received:
    3,528
    That's really worked out for them.
     
    #6 sammy, Dec 16, 2015
  7. mkahanek

    mkahanek Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2001
    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    1,881
    When do the Astros report for Spring training again. There are only so many kicks in the sack you can take before you give up. I am real close with these dolts. Lets see what they do until Jan 1. Hell. Maybe these guys are just water seeking its own level. With better teams maybe they will put in more effort. Will be finding out soon.
     
    #7 mkahanek, Dec 16, 2015
  8. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,688
    Likes Received:
    44,883
    what an extremely dumb route that was/is and its not like its getting any better any time soon
     
    #8 YOLO, Dec 16, 2015
  9. Phreak3

    Phreak3 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,720
    Likes Received:
    81
    So, basically, we need Kevin Durant to get on this team. He will be that leader we need, and Harden will gladly follow him. He's the magic bullet.

    This season is lost. Let's trade away all the pieces Durant doesn't like (i.e., Howard) and bring in the pieces Durant does like (i.e., Scottie Brooks).

    Go all in for Durant.
     
    #9 Phreak3, Dec 16, 2015
  10. HR Dept

    HR Dept Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    6,792
    Likes Received:
    1,223
    I agree wholeheartedly on DH, and with what you said on Harden... To an extent. I just don't think that OKC had any idea of what they had in James one way or the other.

    It's hard to build a team around top flight talent and cornerstone superstars when you didn't draft any of them. I can't think of one team that's won a championship that way, and I think it ties a lot into attitude and leadership.

    The fact of the matter is that this Rockets team doesn't belong to anyone. Not James or Dwight. And that's a big problem.
     
    #10 HR Dept, Dec 16, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
  11. DieHard Rocket

    DieHard Rocket Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2000
    Messages:
    9,385
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Interesting perspective. Don't fully agree though. The premise implies that elite, championship level players aren't obtainable via trade/free agency which is false (LeBron, KDs upcoming free agency, Chris Paul for example, though I realize Paul has never sniffed a title)

    Dwight was injured in LA and that was a sinking ship with or without him. Some really good teams, including the Warriors, were going hard after him.

    And I think Presti made a hasty decision on Harden, but I will agree that had he been a more complete player it would've been much harder to obtain him. Russ and KD were the clear 1 and 2 and they didn't want 3 max players, plus they clearly weren't sold that Harden should be a max player. He picked up the phone and called Washington and Houston (that was it from what I recall reading) instead of really putting him on the market or waiting until the deadline to drum interest. I mean, nobody even remotely good gets traded right before the season starts.
     
    #11 DieHard Rocket, Dec 16, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
  12. True Rocket

    True Rocket Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,036
    Likes Received:
    1,914
    Harden did not fall off. He came into the season out of shape. His defense is bad. But that boy still averaging 30
     
    #12 True Rocket, Dec 16, 2015
  13. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    89,698
    Likes Received:
    43,197
    During that timeframe they (OKC) only perceived Harden as a very good sixth man in the mold of Manu Ginobili nothing more.

    Little did they know he could score with the best of them.

    But they probably valued Defense over Harden's production and thought they could replace him eventually. Not easy but it could be done.

    So they went with Ibaka, Captain Westbrook and Durantula

    They could only replace one aspect of his game with Reggie Jax's output but he is gone now

    They never replaced him completely but they are just half a notch worse than they were with him (about 3-5th place in the West)
     
    #13 daywalker02, Dec 16, 2015
  14. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,688
    Likes Received:
    44,883
    and? its not that hard to average 30 when you get to put up +20 shots a game.
     
    #14 YOLO, Dec 16, 2015
  15. HR Dept

    HR Dept Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    6,792
    Likes Received:
    1,223
    I partially subscribe to this theory. Take the Lebron situation in Miami, he and Bosh were added to a team that already had a homegrown D Wade. KG and Ray joined up with a homegrown Paul Pierce. Pau teamed up with a homegrown Kobe. Clyde came home to team up with Dream. Shaq may be the only exception in his early LA days, but technically Kobe was there even though he wasn't on that level yet.

    That homegrown guy is going to be the heart and soul of the team. The one guy that's fully vested and has been there since the beginning. FA/trades can definitely net superstars that can put a team over the top, but a team full of "mercenaries" (for lack of a better word) probably won't get you there.

    At some point you have to be able to hire from within.
     
    #15 HR Dept, Dec 16, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  16. T_Man

    T_Man Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Messages:
    6,530
    Likes Received:
    2,420
    What is it with you and harden??????? Anytime anybody says anything negative about Harden or you interpret that they said anything negative you take it personal..

    I think Will did a good job of narrowing the situation down.. There was no BLAME.. It just stated the facts...

    Good Job Will

    T_Man
     
    #16 T_Man, Dec 16, 2015
  17. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    46,820
    Likes Received:
    18,536
    100% agree.

    This team really did think they were special coming back from 0-3.

    I personally thought it was a fluke/luck. The Clippers did more than the Rockets did to win the series. I've sensed entitlement since the beginning of the year. They don't like to pass to each other. They just don't trust each other.

    The only thing that can save this team is leadership and sadly it's not gonna come from Harden. He's not Dream.
     
    #17 REEKO_HTOWN, Dec 16, 2015
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    124,091
    Likes Received:
    32,983
    Does not make me feel better, but I agree with most of your thoughts Will.

    DD
     
    #18 DaDakota, Dec 16, 2015
  19. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,637
    Likes Received:
    29,049
    Maybe they feeling Satisfied and Entitled

    Rocket River
     
    #19 Rocket River, Dec 16, 2015
  20. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    70,713
    Likes Received:
    114,709
    swag champions.
     
    #20 DreamShook, Dec 16, 2015
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 4

Share This Page

Toggle Width
Style
ClutchFans Original

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Rockets Content

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now