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Springer

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by raining threes, Sep 9, 2020.

  1. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    I didn't really mean outright exclusively. I meant by any means necessary. Via trade? Fine with me. But my point still stands. Signing a 3rd position player long term. Unbalanced investment?
     
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  2. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    Toro has had bad luck. .161 BABIP. He has 3 HR in only 88 PA and his k rate is a manageable 23%. He needs to walk more but that’s probably lower than it should be because pitchers aren’t throwing him balls because he hasn’t punished them yet. He’s a 23 year old switch hitter who is a plus fielder at 1B/3B and has 20+ HR power. His exit velocity is a healthy 86.5. He projects to be an average regular. Plus I am fine with giving him 200 PA to open next season with Diaz and Jones as insurance, plus maybe a cheap vet (somebody like Smoak or Cron) added as a bench bat. But Toro is a good enough prospect to warrant giving him an extended full time audition.

    Of course if Gurriel is willing to come back on a 1 or 2 year deal for less than $10M/yr I’m happy to have him back.
     
  3. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I don't think that Gurriel is out of the question to come back. He plays a position without huge need and he is an older player.

    If you don't trust Toro there are always cheap free agent options like CJ Cron, Jake Lamb, Mitch Moreland.

    Personally I would try to get Gurriel on the cheap and if that doesn't work then go with Toro.
     
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  4. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    Honestly, if I was Springer I would leave. The championship window is not as open here as it was the last 3 years. Plus, getting away from the cheating scandal will probably reduce stress and make for a happier day to day life.

    I would look at going to Atlanta to play RF next to Acuna. Ozuna is younger and out performing Springer this year though and they might try to keep him instead. I could also see Springer going somewhere like Arlington if they are the highest bidder.

    From the Astros standpoint it will all come down to the money. What is he worth now with his poor performance and the Covid situation? Personally, I would rather have Brantley, Gurriel and make a move for another CFer. Brantley and Yuli won't require the long term contracts and the Astros need to spend money on the bullpen and a real backup catcher. Toro and Jones have not proven themselves at all to warrant starting them next year. With Springer, Reddick, Brantley, Gurriel, Roberto Osuna, Peacock, Devenski, and Biagini as free agents or likely to be gone the Astros have some money to spend. That is right around 75 million coming off the books. I would guess Yuli and Brantley would cost close to 30 million per year combined or maybe a little less. So now you have 45 left million IF you keep the same payroll level. Then the Astros don't have huge increases in arbitration this year. Correa will get a nice bump from 8 million to probably 12-14 million. McCullers shouldn't get too much of a raise and the only other guy of note is Diaz. So the arbitration raises will be maybe 7-9 million. That leaves 36-38 million left. They could sign one elite bullpen arm, sign a Kevin Pillar type for CF (or make a trade), sign a backup catcher, and probably sneak under the luxury tax threshold.
     
  5. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Springer is one of the best OFers in baseball, but for how much longer?

    I think 5 year $100M contract is a reasonable contract. It is garbage compared to what Betts & Harper have gotten, but they were younger, and at their bests have both been better players than George. It is basically what JD Martinez got 3 years ago. JD was 30, while Springer will be 31, though Springer has more defensive ability.

    Of course he also stands out as the best bat in FA. DJ LaMahieu & JT Realmuto are going to be the other big targets, with Marcus Semien entering in the conversation if he rebounds from his slow start or teams put their faith in his 2019 numbers. Red Sox to me are the big threat. They will have money to spend, they have a need, and George being from Connecticut are certainly scary. And at $100M, there are tons of teams that could get involved that aren't big money threats. All of that together probably pushes the money up to about $125M. Of course the COVID after effects could lead to decreased spending by teams in general.
     
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  6. AznH-TownFan

    AznH-TownFan Member

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    I can’t see Astros trying to outbid other teams for Springer. Or signed a FA #1 starting pitcher. As for JV and Zach, if we can’t get an extension this offseason, they’re probably as good as gone.

    I wonder how much will it cost to get LeMahieu out of Yanks lineup. I would love to see him in astros uniform. But so does other 29 teams in MLB.
     
  7. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    Springer has 4-6 years to make 90% of the money he will make in his life. He should go to whichever team offers him the most money. Geography, winning, etc should be distant secondary factors.

    At first glance, the Braves and Phillies were the only 2 teams other than Houston that stood out to me as matches for giving Springer $100M+, once you eliminate the non-contenders, teams with no money, and teams with full outfields. But of course that’s based on a lot of assumptions.
     
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  8. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    I kinda doubt there is any lifestyle or long term financial viability difference between $100m/5 or $125m/5 or whatever. Its not like his family might starve if he takes the lower offer.

    Maybe its an age thing, but I find a lot of things in life where quality is more important than quantity.
     
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  9. TWS1986

    TWS1986 SPX '05
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    I think probably just younger generation kind of thing. All these guys seem to want the Brinks truck.
     
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  10. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    $25,000,000.00 is a lot of money, period. But the bottom line is that expecting someone to give up 10-20% of their lifetime earnings in favor of “winning” or “loyalty” is silly.
     
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  11. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    It might also be that a lot of players equate their worth as a player to how big a contract they can land. Bragging rights, "I got more than you did", "Hey, look what these guys offered". Swelling egos.

    I kinda enjoy it when a player leaves one team for another, and his new team fails miserably. I want the NYY to fail more than ever for this reason (Cole). And so far, they are not doing a bad job of it :)
     
  12. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    In the mid 90's, I made a conscious decision to change my lifestyle. I changed jobs and location and in the process took a 40% pay cut. I have never regretted it or given it a second thought. Its not silly. Not at all. It just matter of personal priorities. If what you value most in the whole world is money, then the decisions you make will be based around that. But not everyone (me) thinks that way or prioritizes that way.
     
  13. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    It wasn’t silly for you. But that wasn’t my point. Your line of thinking is the exception, not the rule. So while your choice wasn’t silly, expecting others to make the same choice would be silly. Also, not to make assumptions about your income, but there’s a huge difference between an average person who expects to work and make a steady 5 figure income for 30+ years and a pro athlete making millions for a handful of years followed by nothing.
     
  14. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    Another important consideration is the fraternity of players. There’s a well-instilled notion that free agents owe it to the players who came before and players coming after to maximize their free agent contracts to raise the bar for future contracts.
     
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  15. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    Try to re-sign Brantley, the rest can stay or go.
    Not gonna break the bank to keep George.

    Verlander, Greinke, Correa, McCullers free agents after 2021
    Besides Altuve & Bregman(both 2024), no other long-term commitments.

    George Springer
    -30 years old(31 on September 19)
    -Would make qualifying offer

    Michael Brantley
    -33 year old
    -Try for another 2-year deal (he'll probably want 3 or 4)
    -Would make qualifying offer

    Josh Reddick
    -33 years old(34 in February)
    -No qualifying offer
    -Not against returning on the "cheap" but not guaranteed anything

    Yuli Gurriel
    -36 years old
    -Probably wouldn't make qualifying offer?
    -Probably wants a multi-year deal; I'd do maybe 2 years at best but preferably year-to-year.

    The following players have expiring contracts or should have the six years of service necessary to become free agents after the 2020 World Series. Players whose contracts include a 2021 option or the right to opt out for 2020 are noted with asterisks. Updated 3/20.

    First Basemen
    C.J. Cron
    Edwin Encarnacion *
    Todd Frazier *
    Yuli Gurriel
    Howie Kendrick
    Brad Miller
    Mitch Moreland *
    Daniel Murphy *
    Anthony Rizzo *
    Carlos Santana *
    Justin Smoak *
    Neil Waker
    Ryan Zimmerman

    Second Basemen
    Asdrubal Cabrera
    Daniel Descalso *
    Freddy Galvis
    Dee Gordon *
    Adeiny Hechavarria
    Cesar Hernandez
    DJ LeMahieu
    Jed Lowrie
    Brad Miller
    Eduardo Nunez
    Chris Owings
    Jurickson Profar
    Jonathan Schoop
    Eric Sogard
    Jonathan Villar
    Kolten Wong *

    Shortstops
    Ehire Adrianza
    Freddy Galvis
    Didi Gregorius
    Jose Iglesias *
    Marcus Semien
    Andrelton Simmons

    Third Basemen
    Asdrubal Cabrera
    Zack Cozart
    Todd Frazier *
    Jedd Gyorko *
    Jung Ho Kang
    Tommy La Stella
    Jake Lamb
    Justin Turner

    Catchers
    Alex Avila
    Welington Castillo
    Jason Castro
    Francisco Cervelli
    Robinson Chirinos
    Tyler Flowers
    Chris Iannetta
    Sandy Leon
    Jeff Mathis
    James McCann
    Yadier Molina
    Roberto Perez *
    Manny Pina
    Wilson Ramos *
    J.T. Realmuto
    Austin Romine
    Kurt Suzuki
    Stephen Vogt *
    Mike Zunino

    Outfielders
    Jackie Bradley Jr.
    Michael Brantley
    Ryan Braun *
    Jay Bruce
    Nicholas Castellanos *
    Yoenis Cespedes
    Shin-Soo Choo
    Nelson Cruz
    Jarrod Dyson
    Adam Eaton
    Leury Garcia
    Brett Gardner *
    Marwin Gonzalez
    Alex Gordon
    Robbie Grossman
    Enrique Hernandez
    Matt Joyce
    Jake Marisnick
    Nick Markakis
    Starling Marte *
    Cameron Maybin
    Marcel Ozuna
    Joc Pederson
    Hunter Pence
    Kevin Pillar
    Josh Reddick
    Domingo Santana *
    Steven Souza Jr.
    George Springer
    Giancarlo Stanton *
    Michael A. Taylor

    Starting Pitchers
    Brett Anderson
    Chase Anderson *
    Chris Archer *
    Jake Arrieta
    Homer Bailey
    Trevor Bauer
    Tyler Chatwood
    Jhoulys Chacin
    Anthony DeSclafani
    Mike Fiers
    Kevin Gausman
    Gio Gonzalez *
    Cole Hamels
    J.A. Happ *
    Rich Hill
    Felix Hernandez
    Rich Hill
    Merrill Kelly *
    Corey Kluber *
    Mike Leake *
    Jon Lester *
    Mike Minor
    Matt Moore
    Charlie Morton *
    Jimmy Nelson *
    Ivan Nova
    James Paxton
    Martin Perez *
    Rick Porcello
    Jose Quintana
    Robbie Ray
    Garrett Richards
    Tyson Ross
    Jeff Samardzija
    Anibal Sanchez *
    Drew Smyly
    Marcus Stroman
    Masahiro Tanaka
    Michael Wacha
    Taijuan Walker
    Alex Wood
    Jordan Zimmermann

    Relief Pitchers
    Jose Alvarez
    Pedro Baez
    Dellin Betances
    Brett Cecil
    Andrew Chafin
    Jesse Chavez
    Steve Cishek
    Tyler Clippard
    Alex Colome
    Wade Davis *
    Chris Devenski
    Sean Doolittle *
    Ken Giles
    Shane Greene
    Brad Hand
    Liam Hendriks
    Kelvin Herrera *
    Yoshihis Hirano
    David Hernandez
    Yoshihisa Hirano
    Jeremy Jeffress
    Keone Kela
    Brandon Kintzler *
    Trevor May
    Jake McGee
    Mark Melancon
    Andrew Miller *
    Brad Peacock
    Yusmeiro Petit
    Oliver Perez
    David Phelps *
    David Robertson
    Sergio Romo *
    Hector Rondon *
    Bryan Shaw *
    Joakim Soria
    Pedro Strop
    Blake Treinen
    Tony Watson
    Justin Wilson
    Brandon Workman
    Kirby Yates
     
    #35 J.R., Sep 10, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
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  16. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    Not expecting, no. Hopeful, yes. When I was 25, I chased money just like the next guy. By 35, my thinking had changed.

    I will add that its not just about thinking of ways to keep Springer or anyone else. I am addressing this particular issue on purely human grounds. Grounds that are based on becoming more wise (hopefully) with age. Once in a while, a guy in some sport somewhere does make the choice to take less to do something or be somewhere they really want more than the money. So my suggestion that some players being talked about right now could make that choice isnt so rare really.
     
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  17. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    That issue is entirely subjective. I’m an old ass man, and my personal experience is that there’s nothing wrong with chasing the money; money is an extremely important factor in quality of life and range of opportunities. Anecdotally, I know far more people who pursued careers of the heart who regretted it because they hated being poor than people who chased the money but regretted it because they didn’t pursue their passion.

    WRT pro athletes not taking the money, your guess (which is what it would be) is as good as mine on whether guys who gave up money for other factors are happier/better than guys who took the money. But I would imagine the VAST majority of guys take the money and don’t regret it. And I do think it is exceedingly rare for a pro athlete to take significantly less money when given the choice.
     
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  18. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    Most people, most of the time prioritize money over most (all?) else. Not making that wrong. Not trying to say what a particular player should do either. Just trying to point out that life has rich rewards that have nothing to do with how much money you have, much less whether you have $100m vs $125m in your bank account.
     
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  19. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    Not a generational thing really, but we've seen it in all sports, obviously more now because more money is involved: if you have the chance to go get more money, many times you will take more money, sometimes you won't. There's "old school" answers on both sides too.
     
  20. msn

    msn Member

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    Didn't Bagwell and Biggio both do this?
     

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