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here Is Only One Way to Defeat ISIS

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by gifford1967, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Contributing Member
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    Charles Pierce has some words of wisdom on how to move forward.

     
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  2. AroundTheWorld

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    Trying to dry up the funding for those who act violent is one necessary step, but it doesn't eradicate the poisonous ideology behind all of it. As long as the poisonous ideology and variants of it is in many people's heads, it will lead to horrible acts, which are really just the tip of the iceberg, because it also leads to intolerance, subjugation of women, discrimination against people of other beliefs, and so on and so on. These things are all connected. The violence is just the most visible expression of the poisonous ideology.

    It's not only a war of funding. It's also a war of ideas.
     
  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member

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    And how do you want to fight that war of ideas? What ideas do you have?
     
  4. AroundTheWorld

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    Freedom of religion (and not to have a religion) without discrimination
    Freedom of speech
    Equal rights for women and homosexuals

    and so on.

    You know, what we call Western values.

    Basically a lot of things that are not believed in in large parts of the Muslim world, especially Saudi Arabia and Qatar, where a lot of the funding for these terrorists comes from.

    It's not just the money, but the bad ideas that need to be fought.
     
  5. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member

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    No, I asked for your solution, not the end result. What policies and acts should we actually do to get there.
     
  6. AroundTheWorld

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    I feel like talking to a 5 year old who is just wasting my time.

    Why don't you answer your own questions. Stop begging for attention.
     
  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member

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    Just what I thought - you have no ideas or solutions - just attack people when they call you out of your b.s.
     
  8. AroundTheWorld

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    Where are your "ideas or solutions"?

    And what is "BS" about saying that freedom of speech, freedom of religion and equal rights for women and homosexuals are superior ideas to these freedoms not being present?

    The key to these ideas prevailing would be education. To explain why these ideas are better than closed-minded ignorance and intolerance. This is why the Taliban fight education: Because they are scared of these ideas. Same in Saudi-Arabia and many parts of the Muslim world: Even expressing these ideas can endanger your life - see: Raif Badawi.

    My hope is that eventually, access to information through the internet will help enlighten some people.

    That clearly hasn't worked in your case, but it doesn't mean that others will not benefit from it.
     
  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member

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    I've presented my ideas before many times. I have yet to see a single solution from you despite your constant critique and complaining about things.

    Duh! How many brain cells did it take you to come to that realization??? We already know that it would be really really great if that part of the world embraced western values. they do not. it's like going to the World Climate Summit and saying "Guys, I solved global warming! We just got to stop emitting C02!!!"

    Education helps but I don't think it alone addresses the root of the issue.

    The internet has show it is as much as a tool for hate, fundamentalism and exacerbating extremism. People in this country are only more polarized as the internet keeps them in a bubble where they only get the info they want, not the info to challenge ideas.

    It's a shame you are so naive.
     
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  10. AroundTheWorld

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    Nope, you have not.

    Besides, which ones do you mean? The "New Yorker" "ideas" or the "Sweet Lou" "ideas"?

    Explain your ideas. Since you asked.
     
  11. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member

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    Dont' try to weasel out of this - you have put yourself out there with your "war of ideas" talk, now let's hear from you how you fix the problem.

    I'm calling you out buddy for not having a single idea on how to solve the problem. All you do is complain, whine, attack, and obsess about Islam as a poisonous ideology that needs to be stopped.

    And your answer is "FREEDOM".

    I'm not going to bail you out. Just admit you have no clue.
     
  12. AroundTheWorld

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    Explain yourself. You have not presented one idea of your own here. You are just trying to get attention.
     
  13. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    Nuke'em from Orbit. That's the only way to be sure.....
     
  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member

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    Typical, when called out about offering a solution, you attack and try to deflect the question back.

    You are empty and useless. I know what you are and you can't hide from it. Either put up or shut up.
     
  15. Kyakko

    Kyakko Contributing Member

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    Start a new sect of Islam and modernize it?
     
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  16. AroundTheWorld

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    Well, I'm not going to do it, but yes, perhaps Islam needs the equivalent of a Martin Luther (as far as his positives are concerned).
     
  17. Jontro

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    I was gonna say the Avengers... but...
     
  18. Nolen

    Nolen Contributing Member

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    Didn't we do this after 9/11? Went after the banks? I guess that didn't work out long term. Should do some research.

    I think going after the economics is certainly smarter than a military-only strategy.

    But after reading the piece, the question that comes to mind is: Let's say the Sauds (for example) stop payrolling AQ and others. Doesn't that just put them in danger of open warfare and collapse? And someone even worse takes over? Open question, I don't really know the answer.
     
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member

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    We aren't going to get the Saudis or the Iranians to stop payrolling anyone. There is no blanket solution. It will take a very orchestrated effort that is both economic, military, political, and humanistic, and the last one is the part that is missing.

    You would think 15 years after 9/11 people would try to understand the whole, "why do they hate us". I'm not talking terrorists, I'm talking about the people who stay quiet and don't stand up against acts of terror. And to this day, the Muslim world sees the west as the aggressor. They see all of this as the chickens coming home to roost and Muslims continually being blamed.

    They see this as a result of Israel being allowed to uncheck practice ethnic cleansing and as the U.S. militarizing radical groups, as well as interference from the west dating back to colonial period. Many Muslims see the west as the root cause of why their world is still in 3rd world status and they have a point when you consider that the Islamic world was once the civilized world and it was the Europeans who were considered the unenlightened.

    What happen in Egypt was just naive - to go in there an think that just letting the people figure out democracy as some American experiment was pure wishful thinking. What needs to be done is many things.

    You need to cut off funding to these groups by penalizing the gov'ts that support them. Any gov't including Saudi Arabia that supports extremist groups should be put under global sanctions. You also have to put real pressure on Saudi Arabia to enter the modern world if it wants to continue to be allied with the U.S. The time has come for that. The treatment of women, foreign workers, and minorities must improve dramatically. A bill of rights is absolutely a must. It's a travesty that the west allows for oppression of the level we are seeing to continue - we have to stop just calling Islam backwards and work with moderates and reformers to do what is necessary to create change. It's not enough to decry the problems and demonize islam. There are people who want change, and it starts by putting pressure on the gov'ts. We can bring Saudi Arabia to it's knees in a month if we wanted to and had the guts. We are no longer afraid of OPEC. The current glut affords us the opportunity to finally stand up to this insane gov't that oppresses people like no other. It's a travesty that we consider them an ally and gives us no credibility to moderate Muslims - why should they support us when we exhibit such hypocrisy????

    To have any legitimacy to do this, we have to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict once and for all. It must end. Israel must exit the occupied territories. There will be no opportunity for peace so long as that festering wound is allowed to continue. Israel's manifest destiny has to be let go. The U.S. has the power to impose a solution on the region. It's time to do that. Real leadership is standing up to Congress and the money and just getting it done. The UN would support a solution and can impose one, this would give the west the credibility to reform the entire middle east political landscape. I say you give them a deadline that if they don't meet will result in the U.N. determining the final peace settlement and imposing it upon both sides.

    We need to created gov'ts where no one group can get power but force each minority group to have enough power that they won't destabilize their own gov't. Iraq failed because Sunni didn't have enough political power. Total democracy didn't work. Just as we have the senate, you need to create a governing body where the minority population is protected and represented. In the U.S. we give a lot of power to the rural voters so they are over-represented. Same thing has to be done in Iraq, Egypt, Libya and so on. Secularist and religious groups should be forced to work together by having enough power to not want to walk away and risk civil war, but not enough to impose their form of tyranny.

    We have to defend moderates with blood if necessary. And that includes getting involved in Syria in a global coalition to wipe out ISIS. And we have to replace the Syrian gov't with one that includes Assad, the rebel groups, and religious groups that are not-ISIS so everyone can be against radicals. It has to have Sunnis and Shiites, and Kurds - all set-up so their voice can not be drowned out.

    And we have to work with all gov'ts with the mandate that extremism must be fought and rooted out as an active policy or face global sanctions.

    Yes the Iranians will be the hardest, but when you have the Russians, Americans, and everyone else unified they will eventually buckle. And again, you have to do the same thing to the Israelis and Palestinians and force them to come to a peace settlement.
     

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