CP3 has a better WS, BPM, VORP, PER, and onoff than westbrook

5 star thread.

 

And that, ladies and gentlemen, has ALWAYS been the knock on Paul. There's no reason to think that this will improve as he approaches his late 30s.

 

Scoring efficiency, shooting, and defense be damned, I guess...

I really hope you're right.

 

his contract is nearly impossible to match for most teams without giving up good players and don’t see any team doing that

 

No tendon huh? Knee injection tendon? That's some fine medical word salad.

Just for your information, you couldn't play without knee tendons. The anatomical part you're looking for here is cartilage, as in "His cartilage is shot and his knee is bone-on-bone."

And Paul has only one reported meniscus tear. It's actually Westbrook that this criticism is more appropriate for given the multiple meniscus tears he has had surgery for.

 

Cp3 cannot be the second best player on a contender. His production is nowhere near enough. He is a better shooter...ok and? We are scoring plenty of points. I like what WB brings as far as energy and aggression. Our rebounding stats are Much improved because of Westbrook and was probably our biggest weakness last year. More rebounds, more possessions, more chances to light up the scoreboard. We are leading the league in FTs per game. Of course a lot of that is James greatest , however you have to realize Westbrook plays a big part in this. Not just from attacking and getting to the line himself, but the increased pace, rebounding, and possessions LEAD to more opportunities to get to the line. James is having a career high attempts per game because of the Westbrook affect. It’s all tied together. We were 22nd in opponent fouls per game, now we are 4th.

It’s a shame you guys don’t recognize what a good player we have giving it his all every night. Westbrook’s peaks are simply higher than cp3s so I think he gives us a better chance. No shade to cp3 but he is old. We needed him to step up last year against the warriors and he only did in game 6. Too little too late.

 

You forgot "cantankerous AAF teammate to everyone including your best player..." metric

 

Westbrook is still recovering from surgery and he has an injured hand. I'm excited to see him at full health. I've got to imagine he is having to take it a bit easy and having an injured hand is affecting his shot for sure. We WAY overpaid to get him, but at this point in their respective careers, Westbrook is a better player now and also importantly next year - the main years left of Harden's prime. Paul was struggling all year last year and is an injury waiting to happen. He is just going to get worse each subsequent year of his deal. It was really sad when he couldn't even get by Jonas Jerebko in the playoffs. Paul was the better player, but father time is undefeated.

 

Westbrook has won roughly 5 games for us this year, especially early on when Harden was dreadful. Efficiency is important, but do you remember Chris Paul turning down isolations against Andrew Bogut last year for the sake of his efficiency (or fear?)? I do...

Russ has shown flashes of actually shouldering some of the load off of James Harden, a luxury he did not have last year with Paul. (Also, dude is brand new to the system, fresh off a knee surgery and some busted fingers, and the Rockets are not 11-14...)

 

Which 5 games did Westbrook win for us?!?

 

CP3 is a better shooter, decision maker, passer, and defender than WB, so that will typically translate to better advanced stats. You can put him on any team and he will make that team better due to the fact that he is a smarter and much more skilled player. The funny thing about stats though is that you can never look at them in a vacuum; at this point in their careers, WB is a better 2nd star, or at least can be.

WB can beat guards and the D in 5v5 matchup (let alone 4v4 with much more space) and then actually finish strong at the rim, allowing him to be more than a glorified role player next to Harden. Last season, CP3 couldn’t even beat bigs which also affected how frequently he could get separation on that elbow jumper we all loved. If CP3 and Harden played together, Harden would have to be much more involved (setting screens and cutting) as CP3 just couldn’t take advantage of the matchups. With WB, ideally Harden will let him push it up the court fast or if he’s bringing the ball up, dump it off to him at the first sign of a double, and let WB do his thing. Hopefully that thing won’t involve a pull-up jumper.

The other thing that isn’t being shown by those stats is the impact that WB has had on our transition offense; we have transition offense again! Much like how Harden single handily makes our half-court offense top 5, WB has the same impact for our transition offense. CP3 on the other hand, is very much a half court guy and the combination of him and Harden made our transition offense essentially non-existent. That play when Harden got a steal and tossed it up to a streaking WB for an alley pop? That will never happen with CP3 for example. The only question though is if WB is willing to keep playing this way as some games he seems to revert mentally and start jacking up ill-advised shots like Josh Smith did. In short, WB has the ability to put the D on their heels and take the pressure off Harden as long as he plays intelligently.

 

Code:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
               Player  Season Age  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P% eFG%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB  TRB  AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
           Chris Paul 2018-19  33 58 58 32.0 5.2 12.4 .419 2.2 6.1 .358 3.0  6.3 .479 .508 3.0 3.5 .862 0.6 3.9  4.6  8.2 2.0 0.3 2.6 2.5 15.6
    Russell Westbrook 2019-20  31 17 17 33.2 8.1 19.1 .426 1.2 5.3 .233 6.9 13.8 .500 .458 4.6 6.4 .722 1.4 6.3  7.6  6.9 1.5 0.3 4.3 3.9 22.1
           Chris Paul 2019-20  34 19 19 30.5 4.9 10.8 .456 1.7 4.4 .386 3.3  6.5 .504 .534 4.1 4.6 .886 0.3 3.9  4.2  5.7 1.7 0.0 2.0 2.4 15.7
    Russell Westbrook 2018-19  30 73 73 36.0 8.6 20.2 .428 1.6 5.6 .290 7.0 14.5 .481 .468 4.1 6.2 .656 1.5 9.6 11.1 10.7 1.9 0.5 4.5 3.4 22.9

               Player  Season Age  G   MP  PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV%  USG% OWS DWS  WS   WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
           Chris Paul 2018-19  33 58 1857 19.7 .560 .493 .282  2.1 13.9  7.9 39.3  3.0  0.8 15.8  22.5 4.4 2.2 6.6    .172  2.9  0.2 3.0  2.4
    Russell Westbrook 2019-20  31 17  565 17.6 .505 .278 .333  4.2 19.3 11.8 34.3  2.0  0.8 16.4  31.9 0.2 0.6 0.9    .073 -0.5  0.7 0.2  0.3
           Chris Paul 2019-20  34 19  580 20.1 .609 .403 .427  1.0 13.8  7.5 29.3  2.7  0.0 13.4  21.5 1.5 0.7 2.2    .182  3.3  0.1 3.4  0.8
    Russell Westbrook 2018-19  30 73 2630 21.1 .501 .279 .306  4.1 28.3 15.8 46.5  2.5  1.1 16.3  30.9 1.8 5.0 6.8    .124  2.5  3.9 6.5  5.6

 

This was entirely predictable.

But he wasn't getting along with harden at the end

 

Westbrook has the better W/L percentage.

 

That doesn't upgrade this team though.

CP3 isn't a threat. Defense doesn't have to worry about him breaking them down. I give Russ a ton of credit for understanding his limitations (shooting) and doing what he does best (break down D). CP3 is definitely the more efficient player but that doesn't help this team. Hes just old. I watched him age last year. Hed do really well with Giannis or Embiid I think. Not Harden, Lebron or Celtics.

 

The reason i was for the Westrook trade, and still am, is "availability". CP3 simply wasnt available for enough games; youve got to stay healthy. I think he had play'd like two thirds of his games over the last 4 seasons. And we all know that his health likely cost us a championship.

I liked that Russ was younger, a better rebounder, and was better at attacking the rim and pushing the pace, but what sold me on the trade was that Russ will be "available"....really couldnt say that about cp3. Availability is an underrated asset in the nba.

All the folks talking about cp3 with rose-colored glasses are forgetting all of the time he spent as the highest paid cheerleader in street clothes.

 

Better scoring efficiency, shooting, and defense don't upgrade this basketball team.

I have truly seen it all

 

Westbrook hasn’t won anything for us.

Thus far he’s BELOW replacement level!!!!!

His winshares per 48 are at Jeremy Lin at his worst level bad.

Wake up people.

Harden wanting to get rid of CP3 and wanting to bring Westbrook here do not change these facts. They only give an explanation as to why we made the bad move in the first place.

 

Did you miss the first 7-8 games of the season?!?!?

 

If the efficient guy refuses to attack (or physically can’t attack) mismatches, then yeah...

CP3 was simultaneously efficient, yet dreadfully restrained last year. Whether it was confidence, or his physical state, I’ll take the inefficient Vernon Maxwell shooting and fearlessness over any version of 2019 CP3.

Do we not statistically have the best starting lineup in the NBA right now?