The only point about private is that we were knowledgeable about everyone. I knew the white kids scores who got into UT but not the business school. Do you deny my overall that affirmative action only gives a slight advantage? Do you think i got in the undergrad business school passing up a bunch of people i wasnt close to? Dont have time for your hostility. Argue the point.
The point about private school is bullshit, the underlying assumption that you kids would discuss or disclose your test scores more readily than public classmates, who are also a larger portion of public university admits, doesn't make any sense. Especially at a school with as massive a freshman class at UT. You apparently not checking the clearly posted admissions standards just speaks to your process back then, not yours or any other black business majors' admissibility.
UT only had 2k black students grad and undergrad so stop talking to me like you for sure know what the **** you're talking about
Okay, did the admissions department separate all the black applicants from the other 5,000 - 6,000 freshman admits? Did all those black admits only get in due to affirmative action, or do they self-select for schools they're likely to get in to like everyone else?
Speaking as a physician and a surgeon(semi-retired), would you trust a surgeon that will be operating on you if he or she went through the affirmative action programs? The black doctor that took over my practice whom I had mentored since his undergrad days is a talented and sought after surgeon. His MCAT scored were 520 and well above the average when He attended the prestigious Dr William Scholl college of podiatric in Chicago, he got in the school the regular ways by 99% perspiration and 1% guidance from me. He can operate on me any time if I need him. He is firmly against affirmative actions and he feels like he will never get a fair shake if he did not earn it. I hope we are still living in a merit based society! Your thoughts Judo?
I've worked with other architects and structural engineers who did. My freshman roommate got into CAL through AA. I have no problem with professionals who might've gotten a start from AA. If they can pass their licensing exams and maintain their practices then they've proven they can do the job. I will point out both Colin Powell and Clarence Thomas have said they benefited from programs like AA. AA type programs don't wipe out merit. Consider too that much of our society including college admissions haven't been about merit. As noted there were legacy admissions there were, admissions of students who weren't academically eligible but got in under athletics, there were the children of big donors.
Where did i say they were all on affirmative action? You missing my overall point arguing about **** i didn't say. I talked about the income status. Don't project. I hung out with kids who i know did much better in high school and the SAT than i did. A bunch of engineering students
So you would put your life into the hands of an affirmative action surgeon Judo? That’s a negative no go for me and my colleagues. We do not play around when it comes to life and death situations.
In the "Black Problem" thread I stated that perceptions and expectations regarding race are a big problem in society. For me when I was very young I wasn't actually that good of a student but because I was Asian there was a perception that I was a good student and i was pushed into better classes by both my parents and teachers. I did eventually become a good student but without that perception I might never have gotten the opportunity to do better. I might've just been shuffled off to remedial classes with teachers who either weren't good or not that interested in helping their students improve. In that sense I can see the point of AA type programs. If there are historical perceptions and expectations regarding how students of certain backgrounds perform they might not be given the opportunity to show they actually can do better. That doesn't mean merit no longer matters following the earlier example a med student should still be able to pass boards, a lawyer the Bar exam.. I wouldn't recommend making the architecture license exam easier. I actually would make it harder in some respects. If we have potentially bright students but because they come from backgrounds, poor schools, broken homes etc... don't even get the chance to get into good schools then we aren't really talking about merit.
If they passed the boards yes. I would have no problem. I've actually had several operations and I've never asked the surgeons or anesthesiologists what university they went to and if they got in due to AA or some other set aside. What does it matter how they got into university if they've passed the boards and gone through residency?
From what I hear from my friends the hardest part of med school is getting in. Most doctors aren't inventing new surgical techniques. Most of them are following procedures that they studied. Is it fair some Indian kid who got a 3.8 and a 30 can't get into med school when someone with a 3.3 and 28 did? Even bad doctors get paid 200k+.
You don’t do the research on the surgeon who’s about to cut you open? I’m pretty sure you would agree with me under equal conditions, you would want the best to operate on you. I had to testify as an expert witness on several malpractice lawsuits, the background and education of these surgeons being sued that came to light, it was shocking to say the least. Let us put it this way, had the patients done their research, there is no ways they would’ve let these doctors touch them in the first place. I’m not saying background and education applied in all cases, but most of the time it’s the standard of excellence we go by.
@Dairy Ashford I can understand thinking i was saying all the black students needed affirmative action. Didn't mean to imply that.
Again if they pass the boards they've earned the right to be a doctor. If we don't feel they should be a doctor then change the licensing requirements. I'm not a doctor but in my profession, which also has a lot of liability, I have no problem with architects who might've gone to college from AA or some other program. As I said I work with architects who have, I know because they talk about it, and I have no problem with it. A couple of them are more successful than me and I had to overcome a quote requirement on Asians to get into CAL.
Well certainly yes would check to see if they have had lawsuits against them or recommendations from others in the field. That said what their undergrad was or how they got in doesn't seem very material to if they've gotten their license and can maintain a practice without lawsuits or ethical violations. As I stated in other reply I've worked with professionals who I know got into school due to AA. While the effects of bad architects and structural engineers might not be as immediate as medicine we still have a lot of liability. It still takes merit to pass the licensing exam and I don't recommend making the license exam technically easier and as a member of the American Institute of Architects I actually have a say in it.
Also to reiterate again. I think race based AA isn't the way to go but I do think addressing issues of class and wealth are. If we want to talk about incompetence in terms of college and professional practice I've seen far incompetence more from people who got in due to family or other connections.
Obviously they are qualified. That isn't what my argument is. Some of these elite school seats are basically worth millions of dollars in extra earnings. Is it fair that the color of your skin will determine if you get one or not?
As I stated I don’t think race based AA is the way to go. I do believe there is historic discrimination but I think the bigger challenge is class and wealth. To refer to my earlier example I would be more inclined to give a set aside type spot to a poor Hmong student even though they are Asian rather than a well to do black student. That is why I like the UT system of taking the top students from region. I think that can address some of the wealth disparities between the Rio Grande Valley and West U.
